[Politics] Are Labour going to turn this country around?

[BadFish]

Based on a quote from Starmer’s spokesman, some failed claimants find ways to delay their return.

The EU has also approved this type of scheme, so it seems it’s not a uniquely British problem.


Source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...sment-as-albania-rules-out-asylum-seeker-deal

Cheers South Saxon. I am struggling to see how these things will improve much, but the info is appreciated.

More about them here:

UNHCR examines third-country return hubs for failed asylum seekers as UK reported to be considering partnerships in the Balkans

Refugee Council warns UK's proposals to use return hubs will be unworkable and a waste of public money

www.ein.org.uk

Why the EU’s migrant 'return hubs' are doomed to fail

The European Commission has proposed a new system for returning third-country nationals staying illegally in the EU: sending them to designated holding areas before deportation. Zeynep Şahin Mencütek and Soner Barthoma explain why its plan will not work

theloop.ecpr.eu

I suspect they will be an expensive mess that doesn't solve any of the problems they are designed to solve.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Something else I noticed on the Graun today was a substantial edit of this article about Starmer’s visit to Albania and the refugee return hubs idea:

Starmer reveals plans to send refused asylum seekers to overseas ‘return hubs’

PM proposes use of third countries during visit to Albania, which rules out role in any such UK scheme

www.theguardian.com

When I first saw this earlier today, it made out that Starmer had been thoroughly humiliated by the Albanian PM, which didn’t really fit with the accompanying quote.

I wonder if a quiet word was had.

Starmer trip labelled an ‘embarassment’ as Albania rules out asylum seeker deal

Tories question point of PM’s visit to Albania as his counterpart rejects establishment of ‘return hubs’

web.archive.org

As I noted yesterday when I failed to notice the source of the latest anti-Starmer snitting,
it is an act of self-harm for the ostensibly left to join in with the 'all the same' gang,
who hope that left of centre voters will stay at home forever,
persuaded that 'they are all the same' and Starmer is just 'tory lite'.

If you dislike modern conservatives, it strikes me as odd to use your vote to favour a tory outcome,
by denying Labour your support.
I put this to my middle brother 2 years ago, and he started ranting about Israel <sigh>.

Meanwhile, millions of simple folk with too much time on their hands are voting Reform.
Labour voters stay at home and Reform wins councils.

In some respects this may be a good thing. The voters will soon see how effective Reform are in power.
I am confident we will not see a doctrine-free, pragmatic, problem-solving party surefootedly fixing stuff.....

And by the time we have another GE, perhaps some of the voter fools will have come to their senses.
(Yes, I am condescending. If I look up to find a thoughtful Reform voter, there is nobody there.)

 

[rippleman]

Starmer is traditionally painted as a calm, reflective character who prioritises due diligence and takes a methodical approach to politics.

I’ve long thought that’s all bullshit. As false a character as Farage’s “Everyman” cos-play.

Starmer’s panicked and frankly pathetic response to the recent Reform wins, is him showing his true colours.

He’s a lickspittle. Which is odd for the most powerful politician in the UK. He actually fawns over people below him in status.

He’s been too afraid to go after the wealthy.

He’s attacked the old, the poor, and now asylum seekers in need of our help.

I wanted the Tory’s out and wasn’t expecting much from a first term government. I just wanted the damage to stop.

Not only are Labour still causing damage, they are failing to stop others doing us damage.

Too cowardly to go after those with the most to give.

Too weak to stand up to Farage.

Too spineless to put Trump straight.

Pathetic, pathetic excuse for a PM.

Yup. All of the above. Bravo sir. Bravo.

 

[SouthSaxon]

Too spineless to put Trump straight.

Pathetic, pathetic excuse for a PM.

How would you specifically have him “put Trump straight”?

What result would you hope for?

What amount of retaliation would you accept and still consider it worthwhile action?

 

[keaton]

More good news from this Labour Government who really are starting to impress me and maybe at last a party i can feel a connection too, the PM is exploring sending failed asylum seekers abroad to return zones…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8re55z8kv7o

Makes you wonder why the previous government didn’t think of this!

If it helps your link explains most of the major differences

 

[lawros left foot]

…..

 

[lawros left foot]

You don’t allow the dealers carte Blanche, it’s the end user who is decriminalised not the illegal dealers and importers higher up the chain. The reason a “ War on burglary, rape, etc “ has failed is because there never was one. It is also a completely fatuous argument, you don’t get addicted to burglary, rape etc, where it becomes more important to the user than literally anything in their lives.

Drug decriminalisation in Portugal: setting the record straight. | Transform

transformdrugs.org

Google Search

.

 

[drew]

You don’t allow the dealers carte Blanche, it’s the end user who is decriminalised not the illegal dealers and importers higher up the chain. The reason a “ War on burglary, rape, etc “ has failed is because there never was one. It is also a completely fatuous argument, you don’t get addicted to burglary, rape etc, where it becomes more important to the user than literally anything in their lives.

Drug decriminalisation in Portugal: setting the record straight. | Transform

transformdrugs.org

Google Search

.

The war on drugs was just a catch phrase for applying the laws of the land. Handy for headlines.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It seems our Prime Minister is quite literally on fire ( well two of his properties are)

Police probe fires at two properties linked to Starmer https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wgrngplnro

A Ukrainian, 21, has been charged with three counts of arson.

 

[lawros left foot]

The war on drugs was just a catch phrase for applying the laws of the land. Handy for headlines.

Hardly.

War on drugs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[drew]

Hardly.

War on drugs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of course it's about applying the laws. Whether locally or globally!

And from the link you posted, 'The term "war on drugs" was popularized by the media after a press conference, given on June 17, 1971, during which President Richard Nixon declared drug abuse "public enemy number one".

As for Portugal, aren't their policies still effectively a war on drugs but with a different approach. They are still trying to discourage the use of drugs. They decriminalised use of drugs (although I think that report states that you can still get sanctions for having drugs) and the supply/selling/production of drugs is still illegal.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

How would you specifically have him “put Trump straight”?

What result would you hope for?

What amount of retaliation would you accept and still consider it worthwhile action?

Well he could call Farage a racist
(and have Farage laugh at him)
He could say Farage has no workable answers to anything
(and have Farage laugh at him)
He could accuse Farage of being a Putin stooge
(and have Farage laugh at him).

And the Farage fan base will grow, laughing at 'rattled' Starmer.

It would be useful for some on the left to accept there are no playground solutions to Farage.
One may even try out some more humane versions of Farage policy...
(luckily he only emotes about foringers so it isn't as if Starmer need rethink general policies)
...out-manouvre Farage.... negotiate return deals with other nations....make it look like he's taking it seriously...
unlike Corbyn who dismissed any concerns about asylum seekers etc.

But if the nation decides that Only Nigel can deliver the Policies We Need, then so be it.
There is no answer to that, all the while Nigel in Charge is an untested phenomenon.

If Starmer is only enraging the left by not asking Farage 'outside' that's probably because this is the best plan.
If members of the left decide to split the left vote and back green or yellow, that's sad.
But if they do that and Farage wins, that's their fault.

Art of the possible....
O, Jeremy Corbyn!
(That went well )

 

[Chicken Run]

A Ukrainian, 21, has been charged with three counts of arson.

Ungrateful piece of excrement, send him home

 

[Bakero]

Of course it's about applying the laws. Whether locally or globally!

And from the link you posted, 'The term "war on drugs" was popularized by the media after a press conference, given on June 17, 1971, during which President Richard Nixon declared drug abuse "public enemy number one".

As for Portugal, aren't their policies still effectively a war on drugs but with a different approach. They are still trying to discourage the use of drugs. They decriminalised use of drugs (although I think that report states that you can still get sanctions for having drugs) and the supply/selling/production of drugs is still illegal.

The war on drugs meant trillions of dollars spent globally, mass incarceration, and an escalation of violence, all while neglecting root causes and failing to put a dent in use or supply.

Portugal's strategy is a world apart.

 

[SouthSaxon]

Well he could call Farage a racist
(and have Farage laugh at him)
He could say Farage has no workable answers to anything
(and have Farage laugh at him)
He could accuse Farage of being a Putin stooge
(and have Farage laugh at him).

And the Farage fan base will grow, laughing at 'rattled' Starmer.

It would be useful for some on the left to accept there are no playground solutions to Farage.
One may even try out some more humane versions of Farage policy...
(luckily he only emotes about foringers so it isn't as if Starmer need rethink general policies)
...out-manouvre Farage.... negotiate return deals with other nations....make it look like he's taking it seriously...
unlike Corbyn who dismissed any concerns about asylum seekers etc.

But if the nation decides that Only Nigel can deliver the Policies We Need, then so be it.
There is no answer to that, all the while Nigel in Charge is an untested phenomenon.

If Starmer is only enraging the left by not asking Farage 'outside' that's probably because this is the best plan.
If members of the left decide to split the left vote and back green or yellow, that's sad.
But if they do that and Farage wins, that's their fault.

Art of the possible....
O, Jeremy Corbyn!
(That went well )

Ahem. Please re-read my post, sir. Trump, not Fromage.

 

[pocketseagull]

Looks like the plan isn't working. Also don't agree that the Left are at fault for being disappointed in Labour. The party is supposed to be an alternative to the Right wing and they're making a decision in Government to occupy that space. It's bad for the country and bad for democracy.

 

[RandyWanger]

Plan was to always get the unpopular stuff out the way early then spend the rest of the term rebuilding his and the party popularity. Hopefully the voters don't for get he is letting your grannies freeze while allowing illegals to live rent free in nice hotels, not a penny more was a lie along with cheaper energy and what ever else the slimy toad has said along the way.

 

[chickens]

If members of the left decide to split the left vote and back green or yellow, that's sad.
But if they do that and Farage wins, that's their fault.

One of the problems for me is that this isn’t actually a recognisable incarnation of the Labour Party, more a drop-in replacement for the Conservative Party.

There’s a degree more competence, a smidgen less of the punching down, but if the policies enacted so far had been blind-tested on me, I would have firmly placed them as Conservative policies.

I don’t think you can claim to be the natural focus point of the left while enacting a right-wing set of policies.

If I were a traditional Conservative voter I’d be delighted with SKS. As someone who believes that we look after each other, and it shouldn’t just be every man for themselves on the race to the bottom, I don’t feel Labour are projecting values that I identify with.

The time of the populists is upon us, wave your Union flags everyone and look forward to sending your kids to war.

Bloody foreigners.

 

[HisBetterBall]

One of the problems for me is that this isn’t actually a recognisable incarnation of the Labour Party, more a drop-in replacement for the Conservative Party.

There’s a degree more competence, a smidgen less of the punching down, but if the policies enacted so far had been blind-tested on me, I would have firmly placed them as Conservative policies.

I don’t think you can claim to be the natural focus point of the left while enacting a right-wing set of policies.

If I were a traditional Conservative voter I’d be delighted with SKS. As someone who believes that we look after each other, and it shouldn’t just be every man for themselves on the race to the bottom, I don’t feel Labour are projecting values that I identify with.

The time of the populists is upon us, wave your Union flags everyone and look forward to sending your kids to war.

Bloody foreigners.

The uk in one image

 

[Bodian]

Ahem. Please re-read my post, sir. Trump, not Fromage.

He's just a mini-Trump though - so much is similar!