Are conspiracy theories destroying democracy?

[Goldstone76]

Kin ell you're thick.

I've been posting the same question for 3 pages now, the one where one of you tin foilers posted a gif showing the plane go into the WTC and being asked if a skyscraper should behave like that upon impact. I asked for someone to show HOW a 102 story skyscraper SHOULD behave, if this is faked, when hit by a fully laden airliner.

But again you answer a completely different question.

Sad, sad people.

Dip stick.. read this!

Impacts and Fireballs

The jet that hit the North Tower flew in perpendicular to the tower's northeast face, and impacted around the center of the 95th floor, producing an impact gash that extended from the 92nd to the 98th floor. Most of the plane apparently lodged in the tower's core structure, the only piece of aircraft to emerge from the opposite side being a dense piece of landing gear. The burning jet fuel, atomized on impact, spilled out of the impact gash and through broken windows on the southeast side.

In contrast, the jet that hit the South Tower, 18 minutes later, veered to the right just before impact and hit the rightmost third of the tower's southwest wall, producing an impact gash that extended from the 78th to the 94th floor. The diagonal trajectory through the building allowed most of the plane to miss the tower's core structure, and much of its fuselage appeared to emerge from the east corner, while a great deal of the fuel escaped from the northeast and southwest walls. This produced huge fireballs that developed outside the building, in contrast with the greater containment of the fireballs in the North Tower impact.

Impact Damage

The jet impacts destroyed sections of perimeter wall columns on the faces of the towers they hit. Although the collisions left imprints that extended out to the wingtips of the jets, the ends of the wings destroyed only the aluminum cladding covering the perimeter columns, not the steel columns themselves. The South Tower's wall was damaged less than the North Tower's, since the columns at its impact zone were made of thicker steel.


North Tower's northeast perimeter wall from floors 93 through 98


South Tower's southwest perimeter wall from floors 78 through 82

According to FEMA's damage estimates, The North Tower impact destroyed from 31 to 36 of its perimeter columns, and the South Tower impact destroyed about 23 of its perimeter columns. Since each tower had 240 perimeter columns, the impacts destroyed only about 13 and 10 percent of the towers' perimeter columns, and only on a few floors.

The Jet Fuel

In the popular imagination, the jet fuel was the biggest factor in bringing down the towers. News reports emphasized that the transcontinental flights were fully loaded with fuel, while later government reports stated that the 767s were carrying about 10,000 of their 24,000-gallon capacity, and that most of the jet fuel likely burned off within five minutes. Thus, the jet fuel primarily served to ignite the post-crash fires rather than sustain them.

 

[symyjym]

Flight 93

"Finding the flight data recorder had been the focus of investigators as they widened their search area today following the discoveries of more debris, including what appeared to be human remains, miles from the point of impact at a reclaimed coal mine". http://old.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010913somersetp3.asp

The above information was omitted from the investigation. Can you explain why?

Wreckage was found south of where Flight 93 crashed, in the direction it was heading. If it was blown up in mid air, wreckage would have been found before and after the impact crater. In fact if blown up in mid ait there would not even be an impact crater.

Anything else

 

[Goldstone76]

Wreckage was found south of where Flight 93 crashed, in the direction it was heading. If it was blown up in mid air, wreckage would have been found before and after the impact crater. In fact if blown up in mid ait there would not even be an impact crater.

Anything else

You cant have it both ways..

Please see page 41-42 of the official 9/11 commission report that states quite clearly that Cheney gave a shoot down order but officially the F16 DID NOT fire on Flight 93. Fox news reported that it was shot down.

CNN reports on debris found at 2nd site approx 6 miles from the impact crater.

If you stand by the official version can you tell me how debris ended up so far away if the plane crashed by passengers taking over the plane (official version). Its not possible for debris to travel 6 miles if the impact was at the angle official witnesses say it was.

 

[colinz]

You know what he meant. Strange how certain posters on this thread have this habit.

He was saying you are a strong believer that there were no planes flown into the buildings.

Is this true?

Have this habit of what ? Of course I believe no planes were flown into the Towers.

http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...n-landing-discus/page32&p=4709980#post4709980

 

[One Love]

Have this habit of what ? Of course I believe no planes were flown into the Towers.

I don't expect you to understand the first part after I've read the second part.

 

[colinz]

I don't expect you to understand the first part after I've read the second part.

Why is that ?

 

[Goldstone76]

Have this habit of what ? Of course I believe no planes were flown into the Towers.

http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...n-landing-discus/page32&p=4709980#post4709980

I think your being silly.. of course planes went into the Towers..

 

[colinz]

I think your being silly.. of course planes went into the Towers..

And what is it that convinces you of that ?

Also any chance of you answering my previous question to you ?

http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...ng-democracy&p=6017727&viewfull=1#post6017727

 

[Goldstone76]

And what is it that convinces you of that ?

Also any chance of you answering my previous question to you ?

http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...ng-democracy&p=6017727&viewfull=1#post6017727

I was in New York in November 2004. I visited the site of the Twin Towers and spoke to quite a few people there, one of which had a relative who died there 9/11. None who I spoke to were convinced by the official line and wanted an independent enquiry. Thats really the point and the main reason why this subject is open to CTs.. The USA government REFUSES to allow an independent enquiry as they also refuse to release information that would once and for all lay to rest the many questions that many people have.. including those whose lives were affected by 9/11.

Each Twin Tower was hit by a plane. Whether it was a drone is up for debate still. I feel that a missile struck the Pentagon and Flight 93 was shot down OR a small explosive was detonated onboard. The Bush government knew of the attack but let it happen alongside with using small explosive to weaken parts of the Twin Tower structure plus Thermite. Thermite was certainly (IMHO) used for Building 7.

Another angle thats still a possibility is that Mossad were involved.. The attack was a huge benefit for Israel as Benjamin Netanyahu has publicly stated.

 

[colinz]

I was in New York in November 2004. I visited the site of the Twin Towers and spoke to quite a few people there, one of which had a relative who died there 9/11. None who I spoke to were convinced by the official line and wanted an independent enquiry. Thats really the point and the main reason why this subject is open to CTs.. The USA government REFUSES to allow an independent enquiry as they also refuse to release information that would once and for all lay to rest the many questions that many people have.. including those whose lives were affected by 9/11

Who was the person who died there, did they work in the Towers ?

And why does the rest of your post convince you, that planes disappeared inside the Towers ?

Can you answer the question before editing your post.

Each Twin Tower was hit by a plane. Whether it was a drone is up for debate still. I feel that a missile struck the Pentagon and Flight 93 was shot down OR a small explosive was detonated onboard. The Bush government knew of the attack but let it happen alongside with using small explosive to weaken parts of the Twin Tower structure plus Thermite. Thermite was certainly (IMHO) used for Building 7.

Another angle thats still a possibility is that Mossad were involved.. The attack was a huge benefit for Israel as Benjamin Netanyahu has publicly stated.
Last edited by Goldstone76; Today at 07:46.

You've made the mistake of over analysing footage that is fake, which is why Richard Gage & Steven Jones talk such crap. Also steer clear of the Jews/ Israel did it.

Edit, my mistake Goldstone 76 may have edited his post whilst I was replying to it.

 

[BadFish]

You're lying again.

It's pretty obvious you like goading people on the internet (and we know what one of those is) so as you can't draw me into your sad life by your posts you've now resorted to lying to draw me in.

OK now I promise to never reply to one of your posts even if it is a lie about me.

Good strategy, the boy is a trolling moron who should be starved of oxygen (both metaphorically and literally).

 

[Goldstone76]

Who was the person who died there, did they work in the Towers ?

I spoke to the wife of a 9/11 victim. Asian women and I cant remember her name. I have a photo of her though.

And why does the rest of your post convince you, that planes disappeared inside the Towers ?

Did I say disappeared inside the Towers? I said HIT the Towers!.

Can you answer the question before editing your post.



You've made the mistake of over analysing footage that is fake, which is why Richard Gage & Steven Jones talk such crap. Also steer clear of the Jews/ Israel did it.

Fake footage? What footage have I seen thats fake? As for Israel.. are so that stupid to think that Israel didnt dance with a little joy? And its also a fact that the American public shows great support for Israel as shown here.

Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel. "We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."

These are facts..

 

[symyjym]

You cant have it both ways..

Please see page 41-42 of the official 9/11 commission report that states quite clearly that Cheney gave a shoot down order but officially the F16 DID NOT fire on Flight 93. Fox news reported that it was shot down.

CNN reports on debris found at 2nd site approx 6 miles from the impact crater.

If you stand by the official version can you tell me how debris ended up so far away if the plane crashed by passengers taking over the plane (official version). Its not possible for debris to travel 6 miles if the impact was at the angle official witnesses say it was.

Look, it is plausible that the USAF had good reason to shoot it down after failing to stop the first three from hitting their targets. Flight 93 was the last hijacked plane and it was heading to Washington. So if we say it had to be taken out, but the US government covered it up because of the sensitive nature of killing its own people, and also making the passengers heroes in the process, they may have felt it was a good option at the time to conceal and dress up the shooting down of their own aircraft.

But if you are going to say because there may be some truth in F93, it therefore means the attacks were setup by the Government and controlled demolitions where involved, you are unable to take evidence on a case by case basis and use one to prove another.

 

[BadFish]

Try to be more more spiritual one love, your perception will be more positive.

Try to be less of a **** the our lives will be more positive.

 

[BadFish]

Dip stick.. read this!

Impacts and Fireballs

The jet that hit the North Tower flew in perpendicular to the tower's northeast face, and impacted around the center of the 95th floor, producing an impact gash that extended from the 92nd to the 98th floor. Most of the plane apparently lodged in the tower's core structure, the only piece of aircraft to emerge from the opposite side being a dense piece of landing gear. The burning jet fuel, atomized on impact, spilled out of the impact gash and through broken windows on the southeast side.

In contrast, the jet that hit the South Tower, 18 minutes later, veered to the right just before impact and hit the rightmost third of the tower's southwest wall, producing an impact gash that extended from the 78th to the 94th floor. The diagonal trajectory through the building allowed most of the plane to miss the tower's core structure, and much of its fuselage appeared to emerge from the east corner, while a great deal of the fuel escaped from the northeast and southwest walls. This produced huge fireballs that developed outside the building, in contrast with the greater containment of the fireballs in the North Tower impact.

Impact Damage

The jet impacts destroyed sections of perimeter wall columns on the faces of the towers they hit. Although the collisions left imprints that extended out to the wingtips of the jets, the ends of the wings destroyed only the aluminum cladding covering the perimeter columns, not the steel columns themselves. The South Tower's wall was damaged less than the North Tower's, since the columns at its impact zone were made of thicker steel.


North Tower's northeast perimeter wall from floors 93 through 98


South Tower's southwest perimeter wall from floors 78 through 82

According to FEMA's damage estimates, The North Tower impact destroyed from 31 to 36 of its perimeter columns, and the South Tower impact destroyed about 23 of its perimeter columns. Since each tower had 240 perimeter columns, the impacts destroyed only about 13 and 10 percent of the towers' perimeter columns, and only on a few floors.

The Jet Fuel

In the popular imagination, the jet fuel was the biggest factor in bringing down the towers. News reports emphasized that the transcontinental flights were fully loaded with fuel, while later government reports stated that the 767s were carrying about 10,000 of their 24,000-gallon capacity, and that most of the jet fuel likely burned off within five minutes. Thus, the jet fuel primarily served to ignite the post-crash fires rather than sustain them.

You want us to accept some information which is unreferenced?

How about this from a couple of member of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. This is the second time of posting and no-one has responded to it. I won't hold my breath though because it is startlingly obvious that any information or questions which cannot be addressed are simply avoided or ignored.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/0112/eagar/eagar-0112.html

I wonder if Pasta will ever get his timeline of events?

 

[colinz]

Fake footage? What footage have I seen thats fake? As for Israel.. are so that stupid to think that Israel didnt dance with a little joy? And its also a fact that the American public shows great support for Israel as shown here.

Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel. "We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."

These are facts..

The 9/11 image pool was faked in advance of the event.
The ridiculous plane disappearing inside the tower. The collapse footage of the Towers collapsing from the top down.
When do you ever see a controlled demolition that is top down.

It's called a red herring, yes Israel benefited from 9/11 (it doesn't mean they were responsible) and so did a lot of others, especially those that wanted the Towers demolished.

 

[Goldstone76]

Look, it is plausible that the USAF had good reason to shoot it down after failing to stop the first three from hitting their targets. Flight 93 was the last hijacked plane and it was heading to Washington. So if we say it had to be taken out, but the US government covered it up because of the sensitive nature of killing its own people, and also making the passengers heroes in the process, they may have felt it was a good option at the time to conceal and dress up the shooting down of their own aircraft.

But if you are going to say because there may be some truth in F93, it therefore means the attacks were setup by the Government and controlled demolitions where involved, you are unable to take evidence on a case by case basis and use one to prove another.

Anything is possible yes. I could be wrong but so could you. Neither of us or anyone here can say or prove beyond reasonable doubt that the official version is correct or the CTs version is correct or even something in between. It could well be that Mossad set up the whole thing using Muslims as the fall guys because it does benefit Israel at the very least. There is reasonable doubt about the official version because its so full of holes. Therefore the US government should allow a full investigation (including the release of information never made available to the 9/11 commission) ideally by the UN but it wont.. If you have some time have a read of the 9/11 commission report.

If your so sure a government doesnt tell a lie to go to war then your a fool.

 

[beorhthelm]

You want us to accept some information which is unreferenced?

How about this from a couple of member of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. This is the second time of posting and no-one has responded to it. I won't hold my breath though because it is startlingly obvious that any information or questions which cannot be addressed are simply avoided or ignored.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/0112/eagar/eagar-0112.html

but your reference is from a people in the establishment and supports the gist of the official version. therefore it cannot be trusted. only sources that are against the official version are to be considered trustworthy, because obviously they are indepedent, and therefore true. even if they are demonstrably false. the end.

 

[BadFish]

Anything is possible yes. I could be wrong but so could you. Neither of us or anyone here can say or prove beyond reasonable doubt that the official version is correct or the CTs version is correct or even something in between. It could well be that Mossad set up the whole thing using Muslims as the fall guys because it does benefit Israel at the very least. There is reasonable doubt about the official version because its so full of holes. Therefore the US government should allow a full investigation (including the release of information never made available to the 9/11 commission) ideally by the UN but it wont.. If you have some time have a read of the 9/11 commission report.

If your so sure a government doesnt tell a lie to go to war then your a fool.

No one on this thread,I repeat no one had suggested that the government don't and did not lie.

And obviously people have benefited from the event.

But motive and form for dishonesty do not prove guilt.

 

[Goldstone76]

The 9/11 image pool was faked in advance of the event. IMAGE POOL? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
The ridiculous plane disappearing inside the tower. I SAW TWO PLANES GO INTO THE TOWERS.. ON THE FENCE ABOUT WHETHER THEY WERE DRONES..
The collapse footage of the Towers collapsing from the top down. YES YOUR RIGHT
When do you ever see a controlled demolition that is top down. Heres a video of a top down demolition..

It's called a red herring, yes Israel benefited from 9/11 (it doesn't mean they were responsible) and so did a lot of others, especially those that wanted the Towers demolished.

I would be interested to hear your opinion on this video. Have a listen to what explosives loader Tom Sullivan has to say.. of course I guess you may suggest that Tom is a nutter and doesnt know what hes talking about.. Lets see.. let me know..