another 5 brave soldiers die today!

[Nibble]

We spend the second most on the army in the world. Why can't we win this?

Because War is effectively a business and makes a lot of people a lot of money. That is not some crazy theory, it's just how the War Machine works.

 

[bhaexpress]

Because War is effectively a business and makes a lot of people a lot of money. That is not some crazy theory, it's just how the War Machine works.

Must be the reason that the Taliban persevere.

 

[Danny-Boy]

I doubt if Maggie invented it, but the culture of the 70s certainly seems to have shaped our current attitude to be more of 'looking after number one'.

It horrifies me to hear people saying they will vote for the party that best suits them, and disregarding the bigger picture. I guess 'there's no such thing as society' made quite an impact.

As for our service people, the attitude of those who have served and posted on here shows true courage and dedication, and they appear to have a better understanding of human responsibilities than some of the apparently better educated posters.

Of course Maggie didn't invent "looking after no. 1"; she just made it government policy, that's all.
I've just been discussing the Afghan situation with someone who spent years in the Middle East, he reckons our policy of creating "Armed redoubts" and trying to defend them is half the problem. These mines are being put along the roads we have to use to get to these outposts, because we don't have enough helicopters to supply them from the air, it seems to me.
And also what is the good of just maintaining isolated bases, when the hinterland is being taken over by the Taleban?

We need a radical solution to a radical problem, as my old mate said the Afghanis will quote at us:

"You may have the watch, but we have the time"....

 

[glasfryn]

I would agree with the comments about war being horrid and those men and boys that die there are brave indeed and you can feel the but coming here better the threatre of war is there than on the streets of London,it can be managed in Afghanistan because we know who are the enemy.
It is most obviously an unwinnable war (we have been trying along with many other nations to quell the tribesmen there as far back as early Victorian times) but if it is possible to contain and occupy the Talliban along with all the others that want to kill the people of this nation on our own land.


It is a neccessary evil I'm afraid

 

[Nibble]

Must be the reason that the Taliban persevere.

Well, to a degree, The Taliban crave money and power as much as Western factions. The taliban want to use that money and power in a vastly different way than the western governments. Our governments want to dominate the countries that provide resources and the Taliban want to wipe us off the planet.

 

[Albion Dan]

ha! Destroy our Western culture? They aren't destroying anything we are the pople that invaded their country don't forget. Brainwashed.

Hilarious. I am far from brainwashed. Going into Iraq was a warcrime for which Bush and Blair should go to trial, however the Taliban supported Al Queda and had terror training camps all over the country with the sole purpose of attacking western interests as well as the small matter of supressing the lives of the majority of their own countrymen and lets not even talk about how they treat women.

 

[Albion Dan]

and Iraq is a success as confirmed by the people.

Is that a joke? I think there are about half a million dead Iraqis and their wider families that may beg to differ.

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

What I don't understand is why aren't we bombing Pakistan if we're using the "terrorist academy" argument. Or areas of South America. America et al didn't start bombing Ireland because the IRA were waging terrorist campaigns. Some of the terrorists in 9/11 and 7/7 were home grown. So why Afghanistan?

A lot of the arguments on here seem to confirm the "eye for an eye" theory - aren't we more civilised than that in the 21st century?

 

[Albion Dan]

What I don't understand is why aren't we bombing Pakistan if we're using the "terrorist academy" argument. Or areas of South America. America et al didn't start bombing Ireland because the IRA were waging terrorist campaigns. Some of the terrorists in 9/11 and 7/7 were home grown. So why Afghanistan?

A lot of the arguments on here seem to confirm the "eye for an eye" theory - aren't we more civilised than that in the 21st century?

If you had a wider understanding of what is going on the Pakistani Army are locked in deep fightin with Taliban forces in the push to get rid of those camps on the Pakistani side of the border, with US support.

It is a nightmare scenario for Pakistan as our fighting in Afganistan pushed the Taliban and into their territory.

And its hardly an Eye for a Eye,its an attempt to stop the cultivation of extremists hell bent on wiping us from the planet.

 

[Nibble]

Hilarious. I am far from brainwashed. Going into Iraq was a warcrime for which Bush and Blair should go to trial, however the Taliban supported Al Queda and had terror training camps all over the country with the sole purpose of attacking western interests as well as the small matter of supressing the lives of the majority of their own countrymen and lets not even talk about how they treat women.

Yes, they are nutcases. I don't think anyone here will disagree. All I'm saying is the reasons for war are peobably not as clear cut as some believe. I also don't trust a lot of information we receive.

 

[bhaexpress]

Well, to a degree, The Taliban crave money and power as much as Western factions. The taliban want to use that money and power in a vastly different way than the western governments. Our governments want to dominate the countries that provide resources and the Taliban want to wipe us off the planet.

To a degree yes but the Taliban want money to fund terrorists in the hope of inflicting their Medieval Fundermentalist Religion on the rest of the world. Whatever the West can be accused of they are not trying to force people into such hideous beliefs and practices.

 

[Nibble]

Well no argument on then first part but I believe we do tend to trample across the globe disregarding other cultures and rinsing land for our own benefit.

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

If you had a wider understanding of what is going on the Pakistani Army are locked in deep fightin with Taliban forces in the push to get rid of those camps on the Pakistani side of the border, with US support.

It is a nightmare scenario for Pakistan as our fighting in Afganistan pushed the Taliban and into their territory.

And its hardly an Eye for a Eye,its an attempt to stop the cultivation of extremists hell bent on wiping us from the planet.

Surely if you're worried about the "wiping all from the planet" idea - then you should be more worried about North Korea? They've got enough nukes to wipe the earth multiple times over if reports are to be believed.

You were saying earlier that you were against Iraq because innocent people were getting caught in the conflict, isn't it exactly the same for Afghan?

At the end of the day, the war in Afghanistan isn't getting rid of terrorists, it's breeding them. As I've found out with chats from my housemate who is a Libyan Muslim, extremists are very hot on revenge. If one of theirs gets killed, there will be their family and friends ready to sign up. So therefore war won't be the answer, it's clearly just inflaming the situation. So what's the point? More of our troops are going to die for nothing.

And when will the war be "over"? Who is going to win from this? Clearly we're not going to be able to wipe out all of the terrorists in the area.

 

[Silent Bob]

What I don't understand is why aren't we bombing Pakistan if we're using the "terrorist academy" argument. Or areas of South America. America et al didn't start bombing Ireland because the IRA were waging terrorist campaigns. Some of the terrorists in 9/11 and 7/7 were home grown. So why Afghanistan?

America are bombing Pakistan.

 

[Albion Dan]

Surely if you're worried about the "wiping all from the planet" idea - then you should be more worried about North Korea? They've got enough nukes to wipe the earth multiple times over if reports are to be believed.

You were saying earlier that you were against Iraq because innocent people were getting caught in the conflict, isn't it exactly the same for Afghan?

At the end of the day, the war in Afghanistan isn't getting rid of terrorists, it's breeding them. As I've found out with chats from my housemate who is a Libyan Muslim, extremists are very hot on revenge. If one of theirs gets killed, there will be their family and friends ready to sign up. So therefore war won't be the answer, it's clearly just inflaming the situation. So what's the point? More of our troops are going to die for nothing.

And when will the war be "over"? Who is going to win from this? Clearly we're not going to be able to wipe out all of the terrorists in the area.

North Korea are highly unlikely to do anything like wipe anyone from the planet. They havent attacked any nation since the Korean war in the 60's. To be honest what would they gain from doing anything to anybody? THey dont have religious beliefs they want us all to share and they dont seem to want to convert anybody else to Communism. In fact they are just posturing in order to defend their boundaries. Any real action would result in them being wiped out too.

Most Muslims, including those in Afghanistan and Pakistan abhore the Taliban regime and the extreme view they try and impose. However if they govern a country then they will, as they have already proven, try as hard as they possibly can to murder westerners en mass (see 9/11). Now it would be incredibly foolish to let that country return to it's pre 9/11 state, if we pull out then the entire place would become terrorist HQ forver more.


By the way I was against the war in Iraq because they posed no threat to us whatsoever and were clearly not even intending to do us any harm It was a war based on bullshit, Afghanistan is based on actual attrocities carried out by that ruling regime.

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

Russia couldnt do it in the 80's so we have no chance of doing it now, especially as we trained half of them when Russia was trying to blow the shit out of them.

I speak as a father whose son has already done his tour of Iraq and is off to Afghan in the near future as part of a Rapid Reaction Force to help the Paras when they deploy out there, and he isnt even 19 yet, but to his credit and the rest if them that go out there, they cant wait, its a culture that they are trained for and are primed for so I have nothing but admiration for them.

Its the current goverment that needs to get its self in order by supplying the correct equipment and tools to fight this war, not give it to refugees and tin pot goverments to line there own pockets.

 

[bhaexpress]

Well no argument on then first part but I believe we do tend to trample across the globe disregarding other cultures and rinsing land for our own benefit.

We4 used to do that but we gave it up many years ago. They are trying to do the same thing however I doubt that many men and no women would be happy with what the Taliban have in mind. Frankly as they are determined to destroy us I have no problem with erradicating them. However, to do that would then bering more moderates into the fray. Bit of a no win situation.

 

[The Oldman]

An interesting article by Matthew Paris in today's Times shows why Afghanistan is so difficult.

Zoom in to this small tale that spells defeat | Matthew Parris - Times Online

 

[1066familyman]

When you look at where Afghanistan is positioned on the world map it's obvious why the west have always sought a presence there.

If you have an aggressive foreign policy to support your Imperialist aims then you must expect casualties

 

[1066familyman]

We4 used to do that but we gave it up many years ago. They are trying to do the same thing however I doubt that many men and no women would be happy with what the Taliban have in mind. Frankly as they are determined to destroy us I have no problem with erradicating them. However, to do that would then bering more moderates into the fray. Bit of a no win situation.

Ever heard of neocolonialism ?