[News] Air India flight AI171 Ahmedabad -> London Gatwick crashed

[peterward]

I was just using my Aeronautics Degree and 20 years for BCal/BA. However the B777 was a new aircraft when I left.

The video clip of it crashing with sound didn't hear the engines screaming.

I shall await what comes out as facts, for now my thoughts are with those people involved.

Bird strike / Double engine failure is a possibility though much less likely imho.

Flap levers on right of thrust quadrant and gear lever between Nav displays, would make the inadvertent flap selection strange for an FO with over 1000 hours. Fatigue can do strange things, but you'd think they wouldn't be departing home base. They could always reselect flap too if they did that. "too low flaps" aural would sound.

Will be a while till we find out, but intersection/performance error does seem most plausible?

 

[peterward]

The pictures from ground on Sky news are horrific

 

[Doug-ees-evil]

Bird strike / Double engine failure is a possibility though much less likely imho.

Flap levers on right of thrust quadrant and gear lever between Nav displays, would make the inadvertent flap selection strange for an FO with over 1000 hours. Fatigue can do strange things, but you'd think they wouldn't be departing home base. They could always reselect flap too if they did that. "too low flaps" aural would sound.

Will be a while till we find out, but intersection/performance error does seem most plausible?

View attachment 204082

Does seem a possibility.
I'm no expert (just an AvGeek) but I assumed any fully-laden, 787 sized aircraft on a long-haul such as this, would always utilise the full runway length?
The (horrendous) videos hint at not enough, speed/lift (it happened at 625ft didn't it?). But all guesswork as has been said.

This is the first ever 787 Dreamliner crash (a very nice plane it is too). Will take a very long time to get to the bottom of the cause. Could be numerous reasons of course.
Thoughts for now with all those affected. Tragic.

 

[Official Old Man]

Just looked on Google Earth at the area where the plane came down. Looks very populated. I've a feeling those on the aircraft were only a few of the many that may have died.
My thoughts are with them all.

 

[Doug-ees-evil]

The pictures from ground on Sky news are horrific

Indeed. Horrific. One of the worst I can ever remember, landing on such a densely populated area.

 

[thedonkeycentrehalf]

PPRUNE is saying not to trust the FlightRadar map of take off as that airport often has gaps in ground coverage.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I visited the city about 17 years ago. Incredibly sad. RIP to those who have lost their lives.

 

[peterward]

PPRUNE is saying not to trust the FlightRadar map of take off as that airport often has gaps in ground coverage.

It's uses something called ADS-B, that isn't highly accurate.

Though whether the intersection was used or not will be known. Tower will know.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Jeez.

Absolutely dreadful, l wish l hadn't watched that clip now.

 

[Chicken Run]

A lot of discussion on 5 Live about the possibility that the flaps weren’t set correctly, purely speculation though by those Boeing Pilots they had on!

 

[Weststander]

RIP to all lost.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Indeed. Horrific. One of the worst I can ever remember, landing on such a densely populated area.

American Airlines flight 587. Came down in the Belle Harbor neighborhood, Queens, NY. November 2001.

 

[Casper18]

How devastating. With 200+ lives lost, the cause may not matter—though I hope it wasn’t another Boeing defect.

 

[Randy McNob]

Apparantly Air India plane - who said it was China Eastern?

 

[Insel affe]

How's your luck eh, it crashed into a Doctors hostel

 

[dazzer6666]

Apparantly Air India plane - who said it was China Eastern?

No-one - I think @Guinness Boy was referring to his flight

 

[RandyWanger]

Horrific, RIP those poor souls involved.

 

[Audax]

This is the first ever 787 Dreamliner crash (a very nice plane it is too). Will take a very long time to get to the bottom of the cause. Could be numerous reasons of course.
Thoughts for now with all those affected. Tragic.

Guardian early on was reporting that there's been issues with the 787 engines reported from other airlines previously. Nothing significant, but they also mentioned that Boeing had to reject calls from a former engineer that all 787's should be grounded (Guardian didn't give much detail on why):

Air India flight to London Gatwick crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 people onboard – latest updates

Plane for flight AI171 was carrying 242 people including 169 Indians and 53 Britons, says Air India

www.theguardian.com

 

[peterward]

A lot of discussion on 5 Live about the possibility that the flaps weren’t set correctly, purely speculation though by those Boeing Pilots they had on!

That happens, as theyre manually set (though checklist should catch if wrong). Taking off without any flaps set is less likely as theres a non stop two tone warning horn when you add take off thrust. . Wrong Take off flap is possible, no flap selected highly unlikely.

 

[peterward]

Guardian early on was reporting that there's been issues with the 787 engines reported from other airlines previously. Nothing significant, but they also mentioned that Boeing had to reject calls from a former engineer that all 787's should be grounded (Guardian didn't give much detail on why):

Air India flight to London Gatwick crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 people onboard – latest updates

Plane for flight AI171 was carrying 242 people including 169 Indians and 53 Britons, says Air India

www.theguardian.com

Most aircraft have multiple engine options when purchased. 787 has either General Electric or Rolls Royce manufactured. If correct? I'd guess this would affect 1 manufactuers Engine variant not both. Engines are though independent of one another on the aircraft and performance is based on the ability to climb with a single engine and the failure of 1 engine just after the speed at which its too late to stop on runway (V1).

Double engine failure due to some inherent design/engineering issue seems unlikely as it would akin to having a known problem in Engines of Audi A5 and having two A5's driving next to each other and both engines blowing at exactly the same time.

Double failure more likely to be birdstrike or fuel contamination (water or impurities in fuel - both engines share same fuel).

Whatever the reasons (who knows) its a terrible human tragedy.