[Football] A car has ploughed into some Liverpool fans at their victory parade

[darkwolf666]

I agree with your analysis up to the highlight. My first thought was that I have yet to come across a left wing 'footy lad'. One assumes you are bringing under your umbrella of opprobrium the 'just stop oil' sorts. Still.....do they a have a reputation for unprovoked violence? 'Violent socialists' is more a Trump trope than a recognized social blight.

My point is that 'they are all the same on the fringes, left and right' is probably not helpful or, indeed, correct. But 'not helpful' is the bigger issue. We have an element who are triggered incredibly quickly by what they see as being 'mugged off' by anything from an asylum seeker to a fan of another football club. I'm not sure this has anything to do with left and right, and I know many on the right who wouldn't subscribe to any of this tomfoolery. It just so happens that most who are like this today would probably fit into the Reform end of the spectrum. But to me this is almost incidental. I don't blame Farage. It is the people themselves who are at fault. Lazy, weak-minded fools, basking in unfounded certainties.

The sort of people who very quickly get reeled in by the likes of Tate, Robinson, Farage et al - all for a quick grift.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I agree with your analysis up to the highlight. My first thought was that I have yet to come across a left wing 'footy lad'. One assumes you are bringing under your umbrella of opprobrium the 'just stop oil' sorts. Still.....do they a have a reputation for unprovoked violence? 'Violent socialists' is more a Trump trope than a recognized social blight.

My point is that 'they are all the same on the fringes, left and right' is probably not helpful or, indeed, correct. But 'not helpful' is the bigger issue. We have an element who are triggered incredibly quickly by what they see as being 'mugged off' by anything from an asylum seeker to a fan of another football club. I'm not sure this has anything to do with left and right, and I know many on the right who wouldn't subscribe to any of this tomfoolery. It just so happens that most who are like this today would probably fit into the Reform end of the spectrum. But to me this is almost incidental. I don't blame Farage. It is the people themselves who are at fault. Lazy, weak-minded fools, basking in unfounded certainties.

Well, I once walked into a pub full of Yorkshire miners in Wombwell before a Barnsley away game around 1989/90 ish who all been f***ed over by Maggie and they didn't exactly offer to buy me a drink, nor were they exactly Tories. Devotees of Scargill, haters of southerners.

Today that area is more than likely heavily Reform supporting however, because they've been told the failure to replace the mines is the fault of foreigners.

Really, it's just more examples of the working class being manipulated by the ruling class, once by closing their industry and once by feeding them crap to make them hate someone other than the ruling class.

There are also some antifa who love a scrap. I've met one or two in my time.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Liverpool though

 

[clapham_gull]

Since Jean Charles de Menezes case I always take immediate “eye-witness” statements, particularly of those keen to talk to the media, with an EXTREMELY large pinch of salt.

Bit odd to use that as an example if you know the back story.

 

[Berty23]

I used to enjoy Twitter and wasted more time on there than here a few years ago. Like you, I rarely go there now but did last night for a peak.

Jesus Christ. The first video it wanted to show me was from Tommy Robinson with all the predictable replies. It didn't get any better from there. Simply awful.

Damn you, you made me check. The videos are all still there with the same suggestions it is suspected terror. As we have said on this thread all the comments about legacy media etc. then lots saying “why did they feel the might to say white man?” “Makes you think” with people pointing out it is to stop people like them attacking innocent people.

There are so many who must be genuinely angry this is a white person not a muslim/immigrant. What a cess pit of hate.

 

[oldboyroy]

Terrible events and wishing everyone injured a speedy recovery.

 

[darkwolf666]

Bit odd to use that as an example if you know the back story.

Not sure I follow what you are saying!

I was working for The Met at the time of that incident and we had a big screen TV (appropriated from a burglar) on in the office.

I clearly recall seeing people interviewed on rolling TV news channels, saying they had seen JCdM jump the tube barriers - they were wrong, but quite happy to get it wrong on national TV coverage ...

This could easily be the same story...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Well, I once walked into a pub full of Yorkshire miners in Wombwell before a Barnsley away game around 1989/90 ish who all been f***ed over by Maggie and they didn't exactly offer to buy me a drink, nor were they exactly Tories. Devotees of Scargill, haters of southerners.

Today that area is more than likely heavily Reform supporting however, because they've been told the failure to replace the mines is the fault of foreigners.

Really, it's just more examples of the working class being manipulated by the ruling class, once by closing their industry and once by feeding them crap to make them hate someone other than the ruling class.

There are also some antifa who love a scrap. I've met one or two in my time.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Liverpool though

I was replying to a point made which, indeed, has little to do with Liverpool.
Ironically, not all traditional working class union members are left wing.
I doubt your Barnsley miners were.
They simply backed their union because it gave their forefathers some security, better pay and better safety.
It is unlikely any of them have read A Critique of Political Economy, The Age of Revolution, or even the great children's classic, Animal Farm.

I can't comment on Antifa as I have never met one, seen one (to my knowledge) or know anyone (apart from you) who has ever mentioned them. So I am not sure how representative they are of the left.

In fact the weft of Antifa reminds me of an ethnicity survey I did when I lived in Canada. The list of options to tick included several of the indigenous peoples. But some were missing, including Ojibwe. A footnote explained that there were too few of them to constitute an ethnic minority.....

 

[Was not Was]

I used to enjoy Twitter and wasted more time on there than here a few years ago. Like you, I rarely go there now but did last night for a peak.

Jesus Christ. The first video it wanted to show me was from Tommy Robinson with all the predictable replies. It didn't get any better from there. Simply awful.

What are they up to now? Saying "we're not being told the whole story"?

 

[clapham_gull]

Not sure I follow what you are saying!

I was working for The Met at the time of that incident and we had a big screen TV (appropriated from a burglar) on in the office.

I clearly recall seeing people interviewed on rolling TV news channels, saying they had seen JCdM jump the tube barriers - they were wrong, but quite happy to get it wrong on national TV coverage ...

This could easily be the same story...

One or two did but your previous employees were also "suggesting" the same happened to other witnesses. I spoke to someone it happened to as well as the "big coat" theory. There is a world of difference here with what The Times have reported.

 

[Zebedee]

Well it seems the government can't be bothered to deal with your type, so yes, I think you need to control your community or get out of the country. Have I got that right @Zebedee ? Sorry, I'm only a beginner Nazi.

To label someone a Nazi just because they hold a different view to you, and are concerned about a key issue of concern to a large number of people in this country, is in my view way over the top. I hope that, in a moment of quiet reflection, you'll feel able to withdraw that remark. It does you no justice.

 

[jcdenton08]

To label someone a Nazi just because they hold a different view to you, and are concerned about a key issue of concern to a large number of people in this country, is in my view way over the top. I hope that, in a moment of quiet reflection, you'll feel able to withdraw that remark. It does you no justice.

People get very emotional over political issues. The difference is having an emotional reaction online considerably lowers the chance of getting knocked the f*** out than calling someone a Nazi to their face.

Which ironically would confirm their own prejudices even further. “Officer, we were just having a political discussion so I called him a Nazi and he punched me for some reason!”.

I wouldn’t dirty my hands with such things, but people have gotten fair too comfortable hurling completely defamatory rhetoric around on all sides of the debate.

 

[Deadly Danson]

I used to enjoy Twitter and wasted more time on there than here a few years ago. Like you, I rarely go there now but did last night for a peak.

Jesus Christ. The first video it wanted to show me was from Tommy Robinson with all the predictable replies. It didn't get any better from there. Simply awful.

Just follow decent people, always use the "Following" tab and you should be fine, even now. If you use "For you", look at "Trending" or go looking for trouble by scrolling through replies it's utterly depressing.

 

[The Fits]

This just isn’t the place to be digressing into the usual pseudo political nonsense.
This is about people being hurt at a football event. Take your crap elsewhere.

 

[darkwolf666]

One or two did but your previous employees were also "suggesting" the same happened to other witnesses. I spoke to someone it happened to as well as the "big coat" theory. There is a world of difference here with what The Times have reported.

Nope. The other way round. Members of the public incorrectly identified JCdM jumping the barriers and were interviewed on rolling News channels saying such.

The Met, to their shame were quite happy to let the lie run and then perpetuated it, all the time knowing it was SO15 officers who leapt the barriers.

It was members of the public who generated the story in the first instance!

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Since Jean Charles de Menezes case I always take immediate “eye-witness” statements, particularly of those keen to talk to the media, with an EXTREMELY large pinch of salt.

Clearly, time will tell, but really it’s just more speculation to add to the story and the way of social media and news outlets wanting to have the scoop on it.

That example stays with me also. I remember a caller ringing in to BBC News in the hour afterwards and describing a man in a bomber jacket running from police and looking like a "cornered rabbit".

 

[Brian Munich]

It worsens daily, but I do find it interesting as an insight into the stupidity of millions and those attempting to take advantage of the stupidity of millions.

Even at the time I wrote the above (just after midnight) the dominating right-wing accounts were still trying to whip up racial hatred claiming the driver was Asian, and that the 53 yo white man arrested was some kind of hero trying to physically stop the terrorist driver and that the ‘woke’ police had arrested the wrong person.

 

[Guinness Boy]

To label someone a Nazi just because they hold a different view to you, and are concerned about a key issue of concern to a large number of people in this country, is in my view way over the top. I hope that, in a moment of quiet reflection, you'll feel able to withdraw that remark. It does you no justice.

If that's the case can you either clarify or withdraw your remark from last night, considering it looks like the act of a white British fifty-something?

 

[jcdenton08]

Yeah, prove you’re not a Nazi! Because that’s how this works nowadays.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Yeah, prove you’re not a Nazi! Because that’s how this works nowadays.

He said....

What is the point though when successive governments do little to address the core issue. I really can't understand the mentality of someone who does something like this. It's beyond my comprehension.

...without ever saying what that was? It would be nice to know if he meant drink driving, mental health support, white working class poverty or, y'know. immigrants and muzzies. He's had some help to decide from the media since that post.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This just isn’t the place to be digressing into the usual pseudo political nonsense.
This is about people being hurt at a football event. Take your crap elsewhere.

There are three stories here. One being what happened, one being how it is being discussed in the media, and the other being how people are reacting to it. This is all legitimate.

Radio 5 has a whole phone-in on this now.

Many people have already said how sad and awful this episode is.
Presumably you consider there is nothing more to say.
In which case please petition for the thread to be closed.