2nd Test: Australia v England at Adelaide

[vegster]

As long as we don't have anymore shots like this....View attachment 49330

Carberry will get tucked up by short stuff and fend one to Short Leg

Root will be softened up with short stuff then given one outside off that he will glide to 2nd slip

KP will come out bristling for a fight and will either get run out getting off the mark or play around a slower ball.

Bell, see Root, above , 3rd slip or gully.

Stokes, surprised by a straight ball on a length, LBW.

Prior will slap a shortish ball to Point.

The rest will be winkled out for cheap.

 

[knocky1]

I'm going to be exceptionally optimistic and state England will bat all day tomorrow. 286/7 at stumps

I hate all this negativity. I reckon 287-4 and that Mitch will twist his ankle his ankle on a rugby ball.

Agree with all Cook was painful to watch, Swann has not recovered from last years op, Prior is well off form, Panesaar is Panesaar and his celebrations for the wicket were great but it was only Steve Smith.

Car berry and root might get going, if the latter stops trying to run him out. Pietersen and Bell could also enjoy this wicket.

All I know is lose tHis and their will be some good betfair prices for England to get something from the Series.

 

[knocky1]

Carberry will get tucked up by short stuff and fend one to Short Leg

Root will be softened up with short stuff then given one outside off that he will glide to 2nd slip

KP will come out bristling for a fight and will either get run out getting off the mark or play around a slower ball.

Bell, see Root, above , 3rd slip or gully.

Stokes, surprised by a straight ball on a length, LBW.

Prior will slap a shortish ball to Point.

The rest will be winkled out for cheap.

....and the follow on?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I hate all this negativity. I reckon 287-4 and that Mitch will twist his ankle his ankle on a rugby ball.

Agree with all Cook was painful to watch, Swann has not recovered from last years op, Prior is well off form, Panesaar is Panesaar and his celebrations for the wicket were great but it was only Steve Smith.

Car berry and root might get going, if the latter stops trying to run him out. Pietersen and Bell could also enjoy this wicket.

All I know is lose tHis and their will be some good betfair prices for England to get something from the Series.

I hate all the negativity too, but what else can you say? Should we just show blind optimism in all this, or is the negativity not really negativity at all and is actually just the reality of what is happening?

I'd love us to bat all day tomorrow obviously, a 100 for Carberry, Root to get a good score, Bell to be n/o at the close only 4 wickets down. But seriously, are me and others showing negativity or are you just showing faith in the sporting Gods blessing us with a turn around?

What I would agree in, is yes you're going to get great value on betting on England - but there is a damn good reason for that!

 

[Billy the Fish]

I wouldn't lose interest in winning all the time either!!! Our little spell of dominance has been all too short for me. I've been taken in by the hype regarding Cook's batting, Prior, Bell's form, Swann and Jimmy's bowling. We've talked them up like we do Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney etc. Like we have the best opener, best seam bowler, best spinner, best keeper....we've talked it up but their collective fall from grace has been rapid and humiliatingly exposed. We don't even look ordinary at the moment, we look just rank poor. Even the Aussies at their low ebb had fight in their belly's, despite losing they snarled and battled. We're laying on our backs having our tummies tickled.

Unless someone does something special, this is going to be even more humiliating than the 2006 whitewash.

The bit I've highlighted isn't true. For a couple of years they were in as much turmoil as any England team - in-fighting, rotation policy by the selectors, every player barring clarke out of form. I've just noticed mo gosfield is re-writing hostory as well.

I think it's clear that this England team has had it's best period. We had lots of players hitting the peak of their career at the same time and we've had three Ashes wins and beaten every team apart from a very good SA side and had a series win in India. I think we could be in for a couple of years of transition now with the old guard on their way out and flower handing over the reigns - he certainly sounds like he's gone as far as he can and needs a break.

I keep saying it on these threads, cricket is a game of conditions and horses for courses and every team in the world at the moment finds it hard to win a series when they're not in their own conditions. Just accept it for what it is and enjoy watching the games unfold - even if we're getting trounced like we are at the moment!

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

As long as we don't have anymore shots like this....View attachment 49330

I've not seen the footage of this dismissal but something looks very very wrong here. Cook bats left-handed so his right shoulder should be aligned towards the bowler and his front foot will be his right side too. Yet in this clip, his left foot is in front of his right leg which would indicated his back

foot has stepped over his right foot. Now that cannot be right unless playing the switch / reverse sweep or the photo has been mirrored. Was he bowled leg stump or off? If it was leg stump the picture has been mirrored, if he was bowled off stump, Graeme Gooch [batting coach] has some work to do.​

 

[vegster]

I hate all the negativity too, but what else can you say? Should we just show blind optimism in all this, or is the negativity not really negativity at all and is actually just the reality of what is happening?

I'd love us to bat all day tomorrow obviously, a 100 for Carberry, Root to get a good score, Bell to be n/o at the close only 4 wickets down. But seriously, are me and others showing negativity or are you just showing faith in the sporting Gods blessing us with a turn around?

What I would agree in, is yes you're going to get great value on betting on England - but there is a damn good reason for that!

See, Nut shell, in a

 

[The Wizard]

This is the sort of batting pitch an in form Pietersen would take to pieces, probably be out for a duck then...

I'm going for England all out for 400'ish with a big hundred from Root. Thing is even if we could save a draw in this match we only need a draw from the series in order to retain.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I hate all the negativity too, but what else can you say? Should we just show blind optimism in all this, or is the negativity not really negativity at all and is actually just the reality of what is happening?

I'd love us to bat all day tomorrow obviously, a 100 for Carberry, Root to get a good score, Bell to be n/o at the close only 4 wickets down. But seriously, are me and others showing negativity or are you just showing faith in the sporting Gods blessing us with a turn around?

What I would agree in, is yes you're going to get great value on betting on England - but there is a damn good reason for that!

See above my post above ^^^

I don't think any of us hold out much hope for a win, but it doesn't mean you can't still enjoy the game for what it is. FFS in the summer vegster (and you as well I think) was on every one of these threads constantly banging on about how shit we are in the tests that we won!
You two obviously get some enjoyment out of these tests otherwise you wouldn't be staying up this late so I'm not doubting you commitment, I just think you both go too far in your criticisms and you're not very constructive - you're like the cricketing version of TCB and WW! Just enjoy watching the game unfold and take it session by session, and take a bit of pleasure when we win one of those sessions.

I have absolutely no faith at the moment, but I still have hope. We only need two players to bat well and things won't look so bad.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The bit I've highlighted isn't true. For a couple of years they were in as much turmoil as any England team - in-fighting, rotation policy by the selectors, every player barring clarke out of form. I've just noticed mo gosfield is re-writing hostory as well.

I think it's clear that this England team has had it's best period. We had lots of players hitting the peak of their career at the same time and we've had three Ashes wins and beaten every team apart from a very good SA side and had a series win in India. I think we could be in for a couple of years of transition now with the old guard on their way out and flower handing over the reigns - he certainly sounds like he's gone as far as he can and needs a break.

I keep saying it on these threads, cricket is a game of conditions and horses for courses and every team in the world at the moment finds it hard to win a series when they're not in their own conditions. Just accept it for what it is and enjoy watching the games unfold - even if we're getting trounced like we are at the moment!

Rewriting history? After losing in 2005, Australia bounced back with an incredible white wash 5-0. The following Ashes, if you remember, England miraculously saved that first Cardiff test with Monty and Jimmy somehow preventing the Aussies from winning. We then won, followed a draw and by them winning, then that brilliant victory at the Oval. Then in 2010, we did well to draw the first test after being skittled on a belter of a pitch for 260, and won the 2nd comfortably, before the Aussies smashed us in Perth (gulp). England then won those last 2 tests - but the Aussies fought all the way. Again, this summer there is no doubt England were saved by the weather from being hauled back in the series. The Aussies battled and battled against arguably our best team since the '80's.

From 2008, this in-fighting, rotation policy, out of form Australian team have won 10, drawn 3 and lost 7 of their last 20 series. Their only defeats have been to India x3, England x2, SA x2, arguably at the time the top 3 test nations. In that period, and this is you rewriting history by saying they have been all over the shop, they've beaten South Africa in South Africa (2-1 2008/09), beaten Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka, whitewashed India in Australia. They've done pretty well for a side so out of form.

Theirs has been a short lived turmoil completely overhyped as you're doing. They've had a poor team at times in transition from losing their greats, but they've battled hard with what they've had, and fought in every series they've played. That's all I'm pretty sure me, and everyone else you're suggesting shouldn't be upset by our performances and just watch games unfold want - some fight, and some guts shown in the field.

You maybe able to sit back and watch our team completely humiliated, but frankly I can't. I've seen people at test matches reading their paper half the day, or a book, not me, I'm passionate about England, and frankly cannot but get angry when we come out here without an ounce of fight in us.

It's also worrying that we can suddenly start using players reaching their peak as an excuse!? Crikey, Bell, Jimmy, Prior are only 31, Cook 29, Broad 27, Root 23....When has age been such an excuse, it's not like half the team are 35+ or something.

It is at present unacceptable, there should be no accepting this as we're currently playing. I can take losing, and enjoy a hard fought game of cricket. Not like this though, they need a bloody rocket up them.

 

[Bold Seagull]

See above my post above ^^^

I don't think any of us hold out much hope for a win, but it doesn't mean you can't still enjoy the game for what it is. FFS in the summer vegster (and you as well I think) was on every one of these threads constantly banging on about how shit we are in the tests that we won!
You two obviously get some enjoyment out of these tests otherwise you wouldn't be staying up this late so I'm not doubting you commitment, I just think you both go too far in your criticisms and you're not very constructive - you're like the cricketing version of TCB and WW! Just enjoy watching the game unfold and take it session by session, and take a bit of pleasure when we win one of those sessions.

I have absolutely no faith at the moment, but I still have hope. We only need two players to bat well and things won't look so bad.

I'm of course hoping as you are, and watching because I love the game, but I need to see us battle, to dig it out. Cook our captain comes out and he looks woeful. At least Root, bless him and credit where credit is due, was prepared to wear a few balls to his body and stand up and be counted. That is what I want to see from all of them. Mentally prepared to fight it out. No gifted wickets. If you get a good ball, so be it, it's going to happen, but they have to show they can stand up here.

As for session by session, so far this series, I think it is played 18 Sessions W2 D1 L15...

As I said in my previous post, some of my opinions are my own fault in believing the hype about this team. I've swallowed the talk of Cook being the greatest England opener, Jimmy being the best seam bowler, Swann the best spinner. I've absorbed all this hook line and sinker. It is my own fault that I believed this England team could be at the top of the test tree for a sustained period, not 3 years, a decade. With the greatest respect, you've probably got your outlook right, and that is England are just ordinary, and you have to enjoy what is in front of you. I'm having a hard time doing that though!

 

[brightonmark1234]

Nathan lyon is makeing our spinners look crap and we go after the bowlers and play some shots like the aussies did and it is so boring watching england block the ball all the time

 

[Bold Seagull]

I've not seen the footage of this dismissal but something looks very very wrong here. Cook bats left-handed so his right shoulder should be aligned towards the bowler and his front foot will be his right side too. Yet in this clip, his left foot is in front of his right leg which would indicated his back

foot has stepped over his right foot. Now that cannot be right unless playing the switch / reverse sweep or the photo has been mirrored. Was he bowled leg stump or off? If it was leg stump the picture has been mirrored, if he was bowled off stump, Graeme Gooch [batting coach] has some work to do.​

Picture is correct, that is his off stump being clipped, he's leading with his wrong leg because he's basically wanted to come forward with his right leg, but sh*t himself at the pace and stepped back, hence the odd looking picture of his wrong foot forward, and his whole body angled like he is trying to play it to mid-on. His bat is so far from his body at the moment, both in front and sideways, that he is an effective walking wicket on any surface. He's gone through this before with a massive dip in form in 2008/9 but clearly the same frailities have resurfaced that he somehow managed to get over from 2010 to 2012.​

 

[vegster]

See above my post above ^^^

I don't think any of us hold out much hope for a win, but it doesn't mean you can't still enjoy the game for what it is. FFS in the summer vegster (and you as well I think) was on every one of these threads constantly banging on about how shit we are in the tests that we won!
You two obviously get some enjoyment out of these tests otherwise you wouldn't be staying up this late so I'm not doubting you commitment, I just think you both go too far in your criticisms and you're not very constructive - you're like the cricketing version of TCB and WW! Just enjoy watching the game unfold and take it session by session, and take a bit of pleasure when we win one of those sessions.

I have absolutely no faith at the moment, but I still have hope. We only need two players to bat well and things won't look so bad.

This was because I could see that we were stagnating as a team, the Aussies for all their weaknesses outplayed us more often than we outplayed them. The contributions from each player became less and less and it was only some exceptional batting and bowling combined with weather in our favour that meant we won the series.
Other than to throw Root in as an opener there was little attempt to integrate any new players and those in the team on their central contracts started to coast.
Prior for example has not passed 50 since May 2013, ( Cricinfo )yet there is a stubborn acceptance that his place is safe and he will come good however long it takes.
Jimmy Anderson was a sensational bowler who could destroy a top order with the new ball or with reverse swing later in an innings. There was a much talked up radio prog in the build up to the Ashes where he said that they had worked out all the Aussies best scoring strokes and their weaknesses. When ever he came in to bowl he knew exactly where to put the ball for each batsman. The last three Australian batting innings gave Anderson figures of 3-225. So whats gone wrong ? maybe the Australians have worked out his weaknesses now instead.
Ultimately, the Australians have changed and we haven't We got complacent and have been caught out and that process started last summer but no one else seemed to notice. Now we have to massively up our game across all three disciplines just to compete in an away series with Australia already 1-0 up and looking good for 2-0. I enjoy the game but I have had so many years of Aussies rubbing our noses in it and I don't want to go back to those days.

 

[crodonilson]

These England players have been some of the luckiest in our history. They have grown up in an era when the standard of Test Cricket is as poor as its ever been. The last 5-6 years has seen a dearth of decent Test bowlers and batsmen have gorged themselves on moderate bowling. Some bowlers have earned exaggerated reputations with cheap wickets.
Cook, Strauss, KP and Bell have racked up a high number of Test centuries but there is no way that any of them would have reached 12 centuries had they been playing in the 80's and 90's. If you compare Gooch, Broad, Gower, Gatting, Lamb, Botham as a line-up v current it is laughably stronger but the former were constantly facing higher class bowling.
The current England side are overrated. Cook has technical issues and under pressure, is now crumbling. Carberry is just a solid County Player and Trott is nervous of quick bowling. KP is a head-case. Hugely talented and with an amazing eye, he just keeps chucking it away in the 20's and 30's. He should be averaging well over 60 in Tests against the poor bowling around. Bell is solid and will grind it out and Root is showing promise. Time will tell whether he really makes it. Prior is like Trott. He doesn't like it up him and will give it away rather than grind it out. As for the bowlers they are all ok without being outstanding. None of them can put a side under sustained pressure and regularly allow sides to recover from early losses.
Flattered in the summer, they are now being found out.

Spot on. Yet they strut around thinking they're one of the greatest England sides ever, they should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I enjoy the game but I have had so many years of Aussies rubbing our noses in it and I don't want to go back to those days.

Amen to that. I can only assume we have some younger posters who really don't remember the summer of '89 through to that humiliating winter of 2002/03. 15 very painful years. I was hoping to give them at least 5 years of pain back, but it's not looking likely!!

 

[Billy the Fish]

I'm of course hoping as you are, and watching because I love the game, but I need to see us battle, to dig it out. Cook our captain comes out and he looks woeful. At least Root, bless him and credit where credit is due, was prepared to wear a few balls to his body and stand up and be counted. That is what I want to see from all of them. Mentally prepared to fight it out. No gifted wickets. If you get a good ball, so be it, it's going to happen, but they have to show they can stand up here.

As for session by session, so far this series, I think it is played 18 Sessions W2 D1 L15...

As I said in my previous post, some of my opinions are my own fault in believing the hype about this team. I've swallowed the talk of Cook being the greatest England opener, Jimmy being the best seam bowler, Swann the best spinner. I've absorbed all this hook line and sinker. It is my own fault that I believed this England team could be at the top of the test tree for a sustained period, not 3 years, a decade. With the greatest respect, you've probably got your outlook right, and that is England are just ordinary, and you have to enjoy what is in front of you. I'm having a hard time doing that though!

A big thing that you have to remember is that the longer the game goes on the more important the sessions get. To use a football analogy, in the summer the aussies were winning a lot of those session 1-0, then when it counted on days 4 & 5 we'd win a couple of session 5-0 and win the test. They did it to us in 2007 at adelaide, remember collingwood's double ton, we looked in total control for three days then Warne skittled us out and they won.

Re your comments about 2007, that doesn't count because on paper their side was much better than ours - they still had Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Hussey, Gilchrest, McGrath, Lee and Warne - they all had a point to prove after 2005. We had Vaughan and Jones out injured and there was a big cloud hanging over the captaincy with Strauss drawing in India but Flintoff being given the role because of media pressure. I'm talking about 2009 - when Arthur was sacked last year.

The current England side is a good team, possibly a very good team if everyone is on form which they were for a couple of years. With so many players out of form and with technical deficiencies exposed it looks like were back in the pack - good at home in our own conditions, not good enough to win away - the same as India, Aus, NZ and WI.

This was because I could see that we were stagnating as a team, the Aussies for all their weaknesses outplayed us more often than we outplayed them. The contributions from each player became less and less and it was only some exceptional batting and bowling combined with weather in our favour that meant we won the series.
Other than to throw Root in as an opener there was little attempt to integrate any new players and those in the team on their central contracts started to coast.
Prior for example has not passed 50 since May 2013, ( Cricinfo )yet there is a stubborn acceptance that his place is safe and he will come good however long it takes.
Jimmy Anderson was a sensational bowler who could destroy a top order with the new ball or with reverse swing later in an innings. There was a much talked up radio prog in the build up to the Ashes where he said that they had worked out all the Aussies best scoring strokes and their weaknesses. When ever he came in to bowl he knew exactly where to put the ball for each batsman. The last three Australian batting innings gave Anderson figures of 3-225. So whats gone wrong ? maybe the Australians have worked out his weaknesses now instead.
Ultimately, the Australians have changed and we haven't We got complacent and have been caught out and that process started last summer but no one else seemed to notice. Now we have to massively up our game across all three disciplines just to compete in an away series with Australia already 1-0 up and looking good for 2-0. I enjoy the game but I have had so many years of Aussies rubbing our noses in it and I don't want to go back to those days.

See my comments above about winning sessions and teams winning outside of their own conditions.

The problem with Cricket is that once you've been found out or have a major dip in form it's very difficult to rectify and at best takes a long time, that's what we're witnessing at the moment. I don't think we'll ever see Prior average 50 in a series again and at some point I'd like to see Bairstow given a chance, Cook is either mentally shot or he has a technical problem, we all know about Trott. That's half the batsmen who were playing well when we were beating everyone 3 years ago. Anderson doesn't take many wickets in places where the ball won't swing. It's no coincidence that our bast bowler by far last night was Stokes who is a bit quicker.

Personally I think South Africa at home in 2012 was the turning point. When we couldn't get Amla out at the oval and then the batmen capitulated was the moment it turned and a lot of players were bought back down to earth. From there it went down hill on the tour to NZ.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Personally I think South Africa at home in 2012 was the turning point. When we couldn't get Amla out at the oval and then the batmen capitulated was the moment it turned and a lot of players were bought back down to earth. From there it went down hill on the tour to NZ.

I don't disagree with that. Although, I would say that the first warning signs were that awful series against Pakistan in Dubai, and then not fairing all that much better in Sri Lanka. But we seem to turn up a performance that gives you so much hope. The 2-1 in India seemed to show signs we were up to it again.

What I would say, is that 3 years ago, there was no complaining about conditions for batting or bowling in Australia for Jimmy, Broad, Swann or whoever, or our batsmen facing Johnson etc. This collective drop of form is just something I can't comprehend.

 

[vegster]

Right, so we are all agreed that we are rubbish and getting worse. It could be a long winter.

 

[knocky1]

I don't disagree with that. Although, I would say that the first warning signs were that awful series against Pakistan in Dubai, and then not fairing all that much better in Sri Lanka. But we seem to turn up a performance that gives you so much hope. The 2-1 in India seemed to show signs we were up to it again.

What I would say, is that 3 years ago, there was no complaining about conditions for batting or bowling in Australia for Jimmy, Broad, Swann or whoever, or our batsmen facing Johnson etc. This collective drop of form is just something I can't comprehend.

Spending 200+ days in hotels year after year with cheeky, chappy Swann could be enough to lead to a collective loss in form.
My own positivity is based upon several traits; sarcasm, irony, facetiousness, foolishness, WUM, hope and glory.
As to lost causes, after the 5-0 thrashing I witnessed in 2007, England continued to lose in the tri commonwealth odi tournament. To reach the 3 game final England had to beat NZ by some particular run rate to play Australia. 150-1 to win. £40 down on Betfair and 3 weeks later I was a very happy bunny (like Cook to Johnson).

Tomorrow will be interesting cricket one way or another.

So if England go past 5-1 at the WACA I will bet on them. At the moment you only get 8-1 for us to win this series. We would bring the Ashes home, if we had takem them downunder in the first place.