2 minute silence today at 11am

[Eastleigh Seagull]

My office window looks out onto the Cenotaph - very nice little ceremony just now with a lone bugler playing the Last Post - there was no traffic noise and everyone stood on the pavement respectfully. I am glad the spirit of remembrance appears to have come back for the past few years despite the inane ramblings and protestations of idiots like fatbadger.

 

[fatbadger]

oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

No willingness to recognise the politics of your own position; and a desperate desire to censor the views of others.

If the wars of the 20th century were for our freedom, we lost.

 

[Raphael Meade]

f*** OFF you stupid little wanker. why cant you just leave it alone.

 

[DTES]

What are you talking about? As we said, we'll happily discuss it. But NOT ON THIS THREAD!!!

 

[Brovion]

fatbadger - your points are not without merit but I basically disagree. I could argue (but I won't) that we went to war in 1914 to protect Belgian neutrality and in 1939 to try and 'liberate' Poland. Both very altruistic aims and nothing to do with Imperialism. (yes, I'm well aware that WW1 was more to do with Imperial envy on all sides). How the wars start, why they start, even who won as far as Rememberance Day is concerened is irrelevant. We are just trying to remember ordinary people who did what they thought was right, we don't want to see them consigned to the dustbin of history'. Yes there is a certain amount of ceremony around it which to an untrained eye may look like that last throes of Empire - but surely you can see it isn't, it's just normal people trying to make sense of what happened. I'm disappointed you think it's a 'carnival', I could think of other less colorful adjectives.

On a more subjective note I'm proud of what this country did in WW2, I'm proud of the, albeit tiny, role my father played in beating Hitler. By September 1939 how else were we going to stop him? The politics of Rememberance is anti-fascist.

 

[chip]

As a historian fatbadger should be aware of the importance of taking a small amount of time to remember the action, events and people that have played a part in the state we find ourselves in today. Most, if not all, of us have ancestors who played a direct part in those events.

He should also be aware, as a historian, that relativistic judgement of past events from the present time is very different to how people experienced those events at the time. Whatever, I'm sure that we would not have been able to discuss them in the way that we can now if a large number of people had not made sacrafices that we cannot adequately contemplate now.

Protect the pikeys fb by all means but have some RESPECT for other people.

 

[Albion Rob]

I am vaguely aware of the politics of war and am pretty sure that most COUNTRIES who CHOOSE to participate have their own aims somewhere in there. However, today is all about the EVERYDAY BLOKES LIKE THOSE WHO USE THIS BOARD who fought the wars whether they believed in them or not. I realise that things tend to be changed over time, but my basic understanding of WWII was that the Nazis were killing millions of people and a coalition overthrew them. But enough of that, today is about my granddad who had half his leg blown off in a booby trap, about my great granddad who died of polio he contracted during the Dunkirk evacuation and my other granddad who served in Burma. Today is about the people who saw unimaginable horror on the front line - like most people on here's dads, granddads and great grabddads.

Whatever way you look at it, NORMAL BLOKES like you and I lost their lives in the two wars. The nomber of DEAD NORMAL BLOKES would probably fill every space in every stadium in Britian several times over.

Let's just remember these people today, eh?

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

There is a distinction to be made between those who died as ' conscripts ' vs. those who died as ' professional soldiers '.

Todays modern Army, Navy and Airforce are staffed by people who accept the risk of injury and death that signing up brings with it. For that reason, recent conflicts cannot be compared to the mass sacrifice in the two World Wars, and during National Service, where people were faced with no choice whatsoever, but to face an almost certain life-threatening situation.

In addition, those events were essentially about maintaining the freedom of this Country. Modern wars have been more about maintaining the freedom of ' other ' countries. To take a ' pacifist ' stance would be disrespectful to, for example, the Falkland Islanders, or the Kuwaities, who undoubtably value their own freedom as much as we do in this country.

Anybody who has given their life to defend freedom is deserving of rememberance.

 

[NMH]

Personally I'll remember, on this day, all souls lost in war believing they died for the honourable cause of defending right and freedom for me . Also those who fought and did not die, and survived the conflicts, but have now passed away, will be in my thoughts (that'll include my dear Dad, thanks)

 

[CHAPPERS]

Personally I'll remember, on this day, all souls lost in war believing they died for the honourable cause of defending right and freedom for me . Also those who fought and did not die, and survived the conflicts, but have now passed away, will be in my thoughts (that'll include my dear Dad, thanks)

And that, as they say, is that.

Phew

 

[Yorkie]

Personally I'll remember, on this day, all souls lost in war believing they died for the honourable cause of defending right and freedom for me . Also those who fought and did not die, and survived the conflicts, but have now passed away, will be in my thoughts (that'll include my dear Dad, thanks)

Exactly NMH. I don't often see eye to eye on what you post but that is spot on.

My Dad served for 33 years in the Royal Navy and died 5 years ago.
My Grandad served in the First World War and got injured.

 

[attila]

Two world wars, totally different in meaning. But equally hellish for all those involved.
My father fought in the first world war (amazing but true, he was 59 when I was born) and there is no doubt that it was a pointless, senseless waste of human life born out of the vanity and ambitions of a few European aristocrats. I wear a poppy in mourning for that waste (cf Eric Bogle's 'Green Fields Of France' - the best anti war song ever written) I also wear it for all those who died in the Spanish Civil War and in World War 2 war fighting fascism, just wars both.

 

[Beach Hut]

I am quite shocked that a post about Remebering people who died serving their country in war - whatever the war, gets hi-jacked into a political debate.

Some people need to get a life - shame on you big time.