[Politics] Brexit

Simster · Mar 30, 2019

The Clamp said:
Voting to leave is not cowardly, it's moronic. Blaming everyone else and not owning it is cowardly.

At what point are you going to stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a moron? There are far more intelligent people than you on this site who voted leave I can tell you.

It's a shame you talk like this because the other message in that post was spot on. May and co have only themselves to blame for this complete mess. I'm not saying others haven't served their own interests in the way they vote but this is undoubtedly a Conservative party mess caused by their own civil war, and they should be holding their hands up to it.

The Clamp · Mar 30, 2019

Icy Gull said:
I am 100% a remainer but accept we are a democracy and have to accept the majority vote, otherwise it’s a self defeating farce however small the majority was

It was a very, very slim majority that would not have been legitimate in any other type of democratic vote. However that is not why we should revoke. We should revoke because it's a terrible idea and the stupid need protecting from themselves.

albion68 · Mar 30, 2019

The Clamp said:
Voting to leave is not cowardly, it's moronic. Blaming everyone else and not owning it is cowardly.

I personally blame the 2/3rds Remain MP`s for for stopping Brexit after agreeing it and trying to steer us to a almost still in the EU situation which pleases no one .

The Clamp · Mar 30, 2019

Simster said:
At what point are you going to stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a moron? There are far more intelligent people than you on this site who voted leave I can tell you.

It's a shame you talk like this because the other message in that post was spot on. May and co have only themselves to blame for this complete mess. I'm not saying others haven't served their own interests in the way they vote but this is undoubtedly a Conservative party mess caused by their own civil war, and they should be holding their hands up to it.

You have been quite pleasant on here lately. You had dropped all the personal insults and had actually started to take part in debate. This morning you have reverted to type and seem to be having a pop at anyone who you imagine has slighted you. Hungover?

Shame.

This self appointed role of Board Head Master you have taken on is embarrassing. Let it go.

But I shan't be toing and froing with you today, your brand of insult is particularly nasty and personal and frankly, I don't like or respect you enough to give you what you want. Have a good day.

TBTC

The Clamp · Mar 30, 2019

albion68 said:
I personally blame the 2/3rds Remain MP`s for for stopping Brexit after agreeing it and trying to steer us to a almost still in the EU situation which pleases no one .

Politicians are partly to blame, yes.

dingodan · Mar 30, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
What did Brexiteers think "taking back control" meant? The very people they are complaining about are the people who wil be in charge when we leave. They have been elected by us in to a system of parliamentary democracy in a vote that post-dates the referendum. This is UK democracy in action, like it or not. Who did they think was going to run the country after we left? A bunch of gammons sitting round a table in a Weatherspoons?

The "people in charge" are people selected by us on the basis of their manifesto commitments. They are our representitives, not our rulers.

n1 gull · Mar 30, 2019

The Clamp said:
It was a very, very slim majority that would not have been legitimate in any other type of democratic vote. However that is not why we should revoke. We should revoke because it's a terrible idea and the stupid need protecting from themselves.

..and you have the nerve to accuse other posters of being abusive yet you call 17 million people stupid

GT49er · Mar 30, 2019

Simster said:
At what point are you going to stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a moron? There are far more intelligent people than you on this site who voted leave I can tell you.

Amen to that!

Icy Gull · Mar 30, 2019

The Clamp said:
It was a very, very slim majority that would not have been legitimate in any other type of democratic vote. However that is not why we should revoke. We should revoke because it's a terrible idea and the stupid need protecting from themselves.

Can’t argue with that but my personal feelings on so many that voted to leave and their reasons is actually irrelevant. We voted to leave so we should leave. I don’t agree with it in any way, apart from that’s how democracy works. I personally think it is madness and I fear for my children and grandchildren. Both my kids have decided to leave the UK if a General Election is called and Corbyn gets in. I already have property abroad and would follow suit.

We all have to make our own choices and I accept that my opinions will sway no-one who feels differently.

Razzoo · Mar 30, 2019

n1 gull said:
..and you have the nerve to accuse other posters of being abusive yet you call 17 million people stupid

I wouldn't worry. Don't engage with The Chump.

Lever · Mar 30, 2019

Icy Gull said:
I am 100% a remainer but accept we are a democracy and have to accept the majority vote, otherwise it’s a self defeating farce however small the majority was

Extremely dodgy referendum though, on numerous levels..... and of course there is also the argument that most 'Leavers' didn't really know what options in 'Leave' they were voting for.

That vote was seriously flawed and it's not good enough to say that the two opposing camps effectively cancel each other out by offering equal amounts of misinformation.

We need a completely transparent, monitored ratification through a referendum or some other means whereby the voters can have a final say.

The Clamp · Mar 30, 2019

n1 gull said:
..and you have the nerve to accuse other posters of being abusive yet you call 17 million people stupid

Nope. I think we were all too stupid to be allowed to vote on this.

Brexit is depressing and so is this thread. I'm off to the beach with the latest Scroobius Pip's Distraction Pieces, weak lemon squash and Haribo Goldbears. Lush.

Enjoy your Brexit Twatfest.

TBTC

Icy Gull · Mar 30, 2019

Lever said:
Extremely dodgy referendum though, on numerous levels..... and of course there is also the argument that most 'Leavers' didn't really know what options in 'Leave' they were voting for.

That vote was seriously flawed and it's not good enough to say that the two opposing camps effectively cancel each other out by offering equal amounts of misinformation.

We need a completely transparent, monitored ratification through a ballot box.

You are not wrong but a reversal of the vote through a new referendum will lead to rioting and fighting on the streets. You wouldn’t think it could get worse but a new vote to remain would result in just that imo.

albion68 · Mar 30, 2019

The Clamp said:
Politicians are partly to blame, yes.

If a footballer goes in for a tackle he is told don`t hold back otherwise he will get injured .May was the wrong person for the job.

Icy Gull · Mar 30, 2019

The Clamp said:
Nope. I think we were all too stupid to be allowed to vote on this.

Brexit is depressing and so is this thread. I'm off to the beach with the latest Scroobius Pip's Distraction Pieces, weak lemon squash and Haribo Goldbears. Lush.

Enjoy your Brexit Twatfest.

TBTC

I accept that I didn’t and don’t see the full picture, we should never have been given the opportunity to vote, but we were and we will live with the consequences.

n1 gull · Mar 30, 2019

Icy Gull said:
You are not wrong but a reversal of the vote through a new referendum will lead to rioting and fighting on the streets.

It totally will. If you are a hardcore Brexit supporter and lets say for arguments sake that is 4 million out of the 17 million that is a hell of a lot of really really angry people. What happens to them? What will they do just shut up and say well done alls fair now? No chance. For the country to heal it has to be a compromise and I just don't know why people are still fighting this

dingodan · Mar 30, 2019

The Clamp said:
It was a very, very slim majority that would not have been legitimate in any other type of democratic vote. However that is not why we should revoke. We should revoke because it's a terrible idea and the stupid need protecting from themselves.

If you think "The stupid need protecting from themselves" is a legitimate political stance then you have no need to argue about democracy, democratic votes or legitimacy..

You are pro autocracy and tyranny.

Oh and you're a tw@t too.

cheshunt seagull · Mar 30, 2019

Within a democracy the objective should be to deliver the result of a referendum whilst respecting the interests of the people that were in the minority. This was not impossible , and creating a positive future outside the EU is not impossible, but it was always going to be intricate, complex and involve some type of compromise. It also required much digger deeply to get an understanding of of what people’s hopes and motivations were when they voted. Alas the approach that was taken was the complete opposite. You could argue this was because the leave movement was hijacaked by the right who claimed, with minimal evidence, to reflect the will of the people. It was also certainly because it became mired in the toxic internal politics of the Tory party and bringing in the DUP just increased the toxicity. The result was that at every step divisions became greater, rational debate harder to achieve, and too many politicians were scared of being honest with the public about the difficulty of the task ahead.
It’s hard to see where we go from here. I am a remainer but I have little stomach for remaining in the EU by default because that will leave so much unfinished business. This is not because of I am fearful of leave mobs roaming the streets but I don’t want to see peaceful well-intentioned people that happened to vote differently to me disillusioned. Alternatively a no-deal Brexit will have huge economic impacts. In my team it will result in loss of jobs and an immediate 50% reduction in income. This is not speculation, it will happen and is the case across the country.
The logical thing would seem to me to either look for a compromise that will probably involve a something like a customs union or the ‘Bobby in the shower’ option and pretend that it is July 2016 and start the Brexit process over from scratch but with a completely different and much more inclusive approach. The chances of the latter happening in the current climate are remote but I think many on both sides are tired of the fighting and division and there may be some hope in that. Who knows?

Triggaaar · Mar 30, 2019

So what's next - what's most likely?

Is it looking most likely that a deal of some sort will be agreed in the next few months by parliament, and we will indeed leave?

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/brexit

Revoking article 50 is 5-2
2nd referendum is 11-5

The Clamp · Mar 30, 2019

dingodan said:
If you think "The stupid need protecting from themselves" is a legitimate political stance then you have no need to argue about democracy, democratic votes or legitimacy..

You are pro autocracy and tyranny.

Oh and you're a tw@t too.

You don’t need a “t” on tw@. Nor do you need to try and circumvent the swear filter, twats are allowed on here (clearly)

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