[Politics] US Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

Machiavelli · Jun 24, 2022

Neville's Breakfast said:
Just focusing on your legal point (rather than the thread topic directly) how does that differ from the UK or EU ? Don’t judges interpret law over here as well ? I appreciate over there they are referencing a written constitution but it could be argued the lack of one is even more open to abuse. I don’t know the answer by the way.

My point, I think, is more definitional than legal. Go back to the Founding Fathers and they hated democracy, and thought they were inventing a novel regime, which they called representation -- which would rival and eclipse the standard trident of politics: monarchy, aristocracy or democracy. Since then and the French revolution, we've come to view representation and democracy in combination, rather than as separate entities. Representative democracy, and all its features (election, separation of powers, etc) would have been anathema to premodern forms of democracy which were direct and participatory.

I don't really view the Roe vs Wade decision as an interpretation of the law either. It's the implementation of an entirely different policy framework.
In terms of un/written constitutions, agree, it's tricky, for the very reason that written ones can become outdated and unwieldy, and resistant to change when it's required. Despite that, on balance, I'm persuaded that one over here would be a welcome development.

Bakero · Jun 24, 2022

Stat Brother said:
If you want to know how 'this' all started I suggest you check out a podcast by Jon Ronson, from his most recent series 'when did it all go wrong' ( or something like that)

Abortion was never an issue for the religious right as it's very much 'a Catholic issue'.

Then at some point in the 1970's it appeared on their radar in much the same way as...

now you're not going to believe this...

...in much the same way as Father Ted promoted The Passion of St Tibulus.

I listened to that a little while ago. The 1000 Dolls episode of the Things Fell Apart series.

BBassic · Jun 24, 2022

Possibly the first time I've looked at our Government and thought "it could be worse"

Papa Lazarou · Jun 24, 2022

BBassic said:
Possibly the first time I've looked at our Government and thought "it could be worse"

Just you wait...

A1X · Jun 24, 2022

[tweet]1540341236803977216[/tweet]

BN41Albion · Jun 24, 2022

Fun times in the good ol' US of A

Christ

RexCathedra · Jun 24, 2022

Thomas' position is essentially the 14th Amendment to the Constitution is unconstitutional.

Hamilton · Jun 24, 2022

The USA is in disarray. Putin will be loving it. Part of his strategy is to sow discord and disunity in Western society.

banjo · Jun 24, 2022

Weststander · Jun 24, 2022

Inevitable once Trump got lucky with the death/retirement of liberal Supreme Court judges.

The Alt Right and Born Again Christian loons rolling back the US to a time when women, gays, blacks, the poor were all third class citizens. Also not good for people who don’t want their kids blown apart by machine guns.

I wonder if the US is losing its lure as an attractive location for professionals to migrate to. Sure you’ll earn mega bucks, but at what price.

Thankfully about 35 states still live in the 21st century.

A1X · Jun 24, 2022

The worry is how long it’ll be before the headbangers over here start getting ideas. Jacob Rees-Mogg would be all in favour of this, and he’s already in government.

RexCathedra · Jun 24, 2022

Weststander said:
I wonder if the US is losing its lure as an attractive location for professionals to migrate to.

Canada is eating our lunch, in surveys, and -- considering the discrepancy in size -- numbers.

But in a country where the average punter is "I'm happy with immigrants, so long as they're proper American immigrants, and not <spits> foreigners", that's more or less expected.
Still, our passports have never not been blue, so there!

Peteinblack · Jun 24, 2022

The American Right and Christian Fundamentalists be like:

"We oppose abortion because 'human life is sacred' - but we support the death penalty and gun ownership."
"We oppose a national health service because this would give the State control over people's bodies - but we want the State to have control over women's bodies and reproductive autonomy."

What a sick and backward society.

B-right-on · Jun 24, 2022

Garry Nelson's Left Foot said:
Have I misunderstood this tweet?

Abortion is illegal even in the case of rape? And incest? So a woman can be raped by her brother of father and she has to have the baby?

As Papa L said, yes that's right. But even worse, the girl could be under 16 and still not be able to get an abortion.

Yet you can buy an AK and they don't ban that.

Tens of thousands die each year from gun crime and over 100,000 people die each year from drug overdose. Yet they do nothing effective about it.

Country is just insane.

Peteinblack · Jun 24, 2022

studio150 said:
Third World Country

Not as advanced!

BN41Albion · Jun 24, 2022

BBassic said:
Possibly the first time I've looked at our Government and thought "it could be worse"

I get your point, but there's a whole host of utter basketcase countries out there that make our government seem reputable!

Neville's Breakfast · Jun 24, 2022

Machiavelli said:
My point, I think, is more definitional than legal. Go back to the Founding Fathers and they hated democracy, and thought they were inventing a novel regime, which they called representation -- which would rival and eclipse the standard trident of politics: monarchy, aristocracy or democracy. Since then and the French revolution, we've come to view representation and democracy in combination, rather than as separate entities. Representative democracy, and all its features (election, separation of powers, etc) would have been anathema to premodern forms of democracy which were direct and participatory.

I don't really view the Roe vs Wade decision as an interpretation of the law either. It's the implementation of an entirely different policy framework.
In terms of un/written constitutions, agree, it's tricky, for the very reason that written ones can become outdated and unwieldy, and resistant to change when it's required. Despite that, on balance, I'm persuaded that one over here would be a welcome development.

Thank you, really interesting reply. I didn’t know any of that American history. Defending their constitution does seem very important to them but exactly what it means is probably a lot more grey than is often claimed.

Lyndhurst 14 · Jun 24, 2022

But all those god fearing pro life wealthy Republicans will have no problem at all in getting abortions for their girl friends or daughters - so, business as usual

birthofanorange · Jun 24, 2022

What an utter cesspit America has become. It was always on a slippery slope and just when you think that they can't get any worse, they allow this.
My American friends are disgusted by this, and they tell me that everyone they know is, too, yet still they allow it to happen.
**** the lot of them.

Stat Brother · Jun 24, 2022

and yet in pretty much every film, TV show, or documentary featuring rank and file Americans they always come across in exactly the same way I've found them.

Friendly, inquisitive, generous, happy, loquacious, proud etc.

The disconnect between how 'we' see them and how 'they' act is enormous.

(Disclaimer - I've not been across the pond for about a decade or so)

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[Politics] US Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

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