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[Politics] The government is urging children to sing this song on June 25



ATFC Seagull

ATFC Seagull

Aberystwyth Town FC
Jul 27, 2004
5,317
(North) Portslade
Neville's Breakfast said:
Thank you. It’s good to have some actual facts although a lot of people are enjoying their fact free outrage.
Click to expand...

But the Department for Education tweeted yesterday asking schools to get involved. That is quite literally from the mouth of the government, at the very highest level when it comes to education.

Scan back through the thread - any outrage? I think everyone is laughing at it.
 






H

HH Brighton

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
1,512
Its like this government are just playing this game of what they can get away with and keep people voting for them. Unfortunately there are people that keep putting their cross next to Conservative candidates which is even weirder.
 


C

CHAPPERS

DISCO SPENG
Jul 5, 2003
44,812
clapham_gull said:
Been doing a bit of reading...

- Nothing to do with the Government, the campaign has been round for a few years. Started by an ex policeman who was born in India, who trade marked it in 2005. Nothing sinister about it, just to me very archaic and (quite obviously) badly named.
- It has "links" with some Conservative MPs who have popularised it although I think at least one Labour MP has endorsed it too.
- A question was brought up in PMQs this year asking the PM for support who unfortunately instantly politicised it and used it to have a pop at the SNP.
- Yesterday, another Tory MP followed it up in parliament and asked Gavin Williamson to endorse it this year.
- Department of education put out tweet.

Another cock up by the Minister For Education who appears to one of those MPs who thinks everything is solved by waving a flag.
Click to expand...

Right.
 


N

Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
ATFC Seagull said:
But the Department for Education tweeted yesterday asking schools to get involved. That is quite literally from the mouth of the government, at the very highest level when it comes to education.

Scan back through the thread - any outrage? I think everyone is laughing at it.
Click to expand...

Asking schools to get involved is not sinister (as suggested by one poster when I scanned back through the thread). It is up to headteachers to decide. Education policy is not administered on Twitter so the Government are not actually involved. They just like the idea and have said so. The poster above is complaining about indoctrination. It’s a bloody song ! Presumably some people are against Citizenship and PHSRE classes and political debates within schools as well. For the record I think it is a bit of a daft idea on about the same level as Pyjama Day.
 




D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
Hugo Rune said:
It’s not the values (does she really learn how to be ‘proud’ of Britain by the way) it’s the horrific song and website. If you think this is nothing new, I’m assuming you’ll be celebrating on Friday with you daughter with Union Jacks flying everywhere whilst dueting the song for your neighbours in the front garden?
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No I will not be celebrating on Friday. Like I said my daughter is already taught these values at school.

I doubt any teachers will even bother with this anyway, but I'll ask my wife tonight what her plans are and whether it is compulsory.
 


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
18,042
Deepest, darkest Sussex
TBH if they wanted people to all feel unified in singing a song in England they'd be better off encouraging them to sing this one

 






Sid in the Sharknado

Sid in the Sharknado

New member
Aug 13, 2020
1,482
Darlington
Neville's Breakfast said:
Presumably some people are against Citizenship and PHSRE classes and political debates within schools as well.
Click to expand...

My recollection is that Soc Ed and RE classes consist largely of being told not to down whole bottles of cider, and advice on how to not get STDs or pregnant.

As I don't like cider and have received a letter from my doctor confirming I don't have aids, I can only conclude these lessons were more successful than I realised at the time.
 


ATFC Seagull

ATFC Seagull

Aberystwyth Town FC
Jul 27, 2004
5,317
(North) Portslade
Neville's Breakfast said:
Asking schools to get involved is not sinister (as suggested by one poster when I scanned back through the thread). It is up to headteachers to decide. Education policy is not administered on Twitter so the Government are not actually involved. They just like the idea and have said so. The poster above is complaining about indoctrination. It’s a bloody song ! Presumably some people are against Citizenship and PHSRE classes and political debates within schools as well. For the record I think it is a bit of a daft idea on about the same level as Pyjama Day.
Click to expand...

Agreed it's not formal DfE policy that can be enforced. It's also completely false to disassociate it with government almost entirely. Don't do Twitter a disservice - it's quite clearly becoming the main mouthpiece for political policy and direction across the spectrum and in fact worldwide. If the official twitter of a government department tweet support of something, that is not an insignificant thing.

I'm not sure comparing to PSHE or political debates is a fair one. This is very different from the "British Values" that schools teach - tolerance, liberal democracy, community participation etc. It's a (very bad) nationalistic song, and it is similar to the kind of thing that you'd have found sung by the Hitler Youth or indeed the Pioneers in East Germany. Before anyone accuses me of marxism or wokeness or whatever the current phrase is, I've no issue with things like schools observing remembrance day, singing of mildly patriotic things like "Jerusalem" or whatever.

Anyway I suspect it's just one of the many places the government is angling for a new dimension of its culture war, seeing if they'll catch some bites and this can be the next statues/flags/Rule Britannia at the Proms. And if not, move on.
 


Audax

Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,968
Uckfield
More seriously than my previous post (why do people not look at potential pre-existing connotations of phrases before using them?), a few thoughts:

- The OBON ideals as presented on their site are, for the most part, ones I can support. There's nothing wrong with backing inclusivity and diversity.
- However - and it's a strong however - they make the mistake of taking them too far by attempting to wrap them in some sort of universal "British culture". In particular, this line from their website is a massive red flag for me: "It is about seeking to create a single culture that embraces and accommodates differences without over-emphasising and reinforcing them." (bold mine) It's the bit in bold that throws up a red flag for me - that is a statement that can easily be interpreted as encouraging the suppression of cultures that are not deemed 'British enough'. That's wrong, very, very wrong.
- Their song is terrible. Not just on musical merits, but also because of how the lyrics left them so wide open to adverse historical comparisons (with or without merit), especially when you start using kids as the vehicle to get the message out.

So, what worries me here is this:

I don't know whether this is a case of "heart in right place, communication / methodology is terrible" or "wrong-headed people trying to apply a veneer over their real core message".

A lot of what they have on their site says the former, but there's elements throughout the site that could suggest the latter.
 




N

Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
ATFC Seagull said:
Agreed it's not formal DfE policy that can be enforced. It's also completely false to disassociate it with government almost entirely. Don't do Twitter a disservice - it's quite clearly becoming the main mouthpiece for political policy and direction across the spectrum and in fact worldwide. If the official twitter of a government department tweet support of something, that is not an insignificant thing.

I'm not sure comparing to PSHE or political debates is a fair one. This is very different from the "British Values" that schools teach - tolerance, liberal democracy, community participation etc. It's a (very bad) nationalistic song, and it is similar to the kind of thing that you'd have found sung by the Hitler Youth or indeed the Pioneers in East Germany. Before anyone accuses me of marxism or wokeness or whatever the current phrase is, I've no issue with things like schools observing remembrance day, singing of mildly patriotic things like "Jerusalem" or whatever.

Anyway I suspect it's just one of the many places the government is angling for a new dimension of its culture war, seeing if they'll catch some bites and this can be the next statues/flags/Rule Britannia at the Proms. And if not, move on.
Click to expand...

We can agree it is a bad song. I would also add a bit embarrassing. No-one is going to get ‘indoctrinated’ by it though. To compare it to Nazi Germany or Communist East Germany is farcical. I think you will find that their songs were backed up by propaganda filled curriculums and teachers, neither of which we have in this country. The reaction to this story is just complete distortion and political mischief making.
 


zefarelly

zefarelly

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
21,877
Sussex, by the sea
Neville's Breakfast said:
We can agree it is a bad song. I would also add a bit embarrassing. No-one is going to get ‘indoctrinated’ by it though. To compare it to Nazi Germany or Communist East Germany is farcical. I think you will find that their songs were backed up by propaganda filled curriculums and teachers, neither of which we have in this country..
Click to expand...

Yet

Neville's Breakfast said:
The reaction to this story is just complete distortion and political mischief making.
Click to expand...

It's learned behaviour. The Government started it.
 








A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
18,042
Deepest, darkest Sussex
[tweet]1407624149678407681[/tweet]
 




G

Greg Bobkin

Silver Seagull
May 22, 2012
14,994
clapham_gull said:
Been doing a bit of reading...

- Nothing to do with the Government, the campaign has been round for a few years. Started by an ex policeman who was born in India, who trade marked it in 2005. Nothing sinister about it, just to me very archaic and (quite obviously) badly named.
- It has "links" with some Conservative MPs who have popularised it although I think at least one Labour MP has endorsed it too.
- A question was brought up in PMQs this year asking the PM for support who unfortunately instantly politicised it and used it to have a pop at the SNP.
- Yesterday, another Tory MP followed it up in parliament and asked Gavin Williamson to endorse it this year.
- Department of education put out tweet.

Another cock up by the Minister For Education who appears to one of those MPs who thinks everything is solved by waving a flag.
Click to expand...

Nope, can't see ANY link to the Government.

None whatsoever :dunce:
 




D

Deleted member 2719

Guest
Strong Britain......great nation....

Strong Britain......great nation....Strong Britain......great nation....Strong Britain......great nation....

:rave:


Anyone else singing this today?

Far better than any eurovision song contest song IMO, and written by kids.
 


D

Da Man Clay

T'Blades
Dec 16, 2004
16,258
"Now Fatherland, Fatherland, show us the sign
Your children have waited to see
The morning will come
When the world is mine
Tomorrow belongs to me
Tomorrow belongs to me
Tomorrow belongs to me
Tomorrow belongs to me"
 


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