[Other Sport] Lewis Hamilton the greatest living British sportsman?

jakarta · Oct 26, 2020

The Wizard said:
Smashed his competitors in equal cars in F2/3
Beat a world champion and one of the fastest drivers in F1 history in the same car in his first season as a ROOKIE
Narrowly lost the championship in his first season as a rookie
Won the title in his second season
Dragged a dog of a McClaren car to the top of the grid
92 Race Wins
83 Pole positions
155 podiums
6(7) World titles
Wet weather master
One of the best wheel to wheel racers on the grid.
Only beaten by his team mate twice in 13 years in F1, both times pretty much down to reliability issues. (Button & Rosberg)

BUT He hired a dodgy private jet, lives in a Monaco and wears silly clothes, so I for one think he’s a scaletrix driver who drives round in circles and gets paid stupid money whilst dodging his taxes.

Not much annoys me more than people who know nothing about F1 claiming he only wins because he has the best car, clearly you never watched Lewis back when he didn’t have the best car. Senna, Mansell, Prost, Schumacher, Vettel all history makers - all drove the best car.

You clearly know your motorsport but lets have it - 1967 Lotus 49's same DFV engines, who wins?

raymondo · Oct 26, 2020

LH lost me when he suggested that his going vegan/veggie was a fantastic thing to do for the planet...as if that rebalances the amount of fuel he and his industry uses...it was an idiotic comment.

cunning fergus · Oct 26, 2020

FatSuperman said:
Despite being a PAYE pleb, I am vehemently against the position many people take on this, this morality about tax reduction is ridiculous.

The government are very keen to make this sort of thing seem an 'ethical choice' issue... Lewis Hamilton (and other non-black people that don't seem to get mentioned) have chosen to avoid tax (using perfectly legal loopholes that thousands of others use). But it is in fact the government's duty to provide an unambiguous solution. If the tax code is complex, it is the people responsible for it want it that way. And it's bloody obvious why that would be.

It's the same with the COVID response. The narrative is all about the individuals not doing the right thing - they are choosing to risk us. When it's really the response that is lacking.

The trouble is some people living in this country earn much less than Lewis and yet pay 62% tax (yep even under a Tory Govt) and they don’t get the platform that he does.

Anyone paying over 50% of their wages to the Govt should have more of a platform for their views than someone living in Monaco. Comparison to Button would only make sense if Button was also constantly whining about the country of his birth that he decided to leave so he could keep more of his money.

This is the trouble with individuals famous for one discipline deciding to enter the political sphere, they will polarise opinion. The BLM issue is polarising, as it is intended to be, and those who want to act as it’s flag bearers should do so knowing they are not going to bring everyone with them.

They certainly won’t if they do it whilst living in hideously white tax enclaves in the South of France.

GT49er · Oct 26, 2020

raymondo said:
LH lost me when he suggested that his going vegan/veggie was a fantastic thing to do for the planet...as if that rebalances the amount of fuel he and his industry uses.....

Regardless of whether or not he is the greatest living British sportsman, or whether I think he is or not, that is a very valid point!
:lolol:

Hugo Rune · Oct 26, 2020

Live by the sea said:
Lewis is a great driver no question but he also has been helped a lot by driving the best car on the track every race .

The best drivers are normally in the best teams with the best cars though - they kind of attract each other. It‘s like Messi at Barcelona or Ronaldo at Madrid.

As others have said, the greatest driver Hamilton faced was Alonso, it’s such a shame they had so few races with comparable equipment but shows you that Lewis’ judgement in choosing his career path has been sound, which is part of what it takes to be the GOAT, if you get yourself into a slow car (like Alonso did a few times) you only have yourself to blame.

Madafwo · Oct 26, 2020

jakarta said:
You clearly know your motorsport but lets have it - 1967 Lotus 49's same DFV engines, who wins?

Don't take this the wrong way but why use machinery from Clark's era, why not put Jim in the current Mercedes in the completely hypothetical and impossible situation? Maybe a best of three situation, a 49, Lewis' current car and one from the 80's with a mad turbo engine?

I love the fact that we can have these situations where we get to discuss two of the best drivers ever to have graced the planet and they're both British. You've then got Stewart and Moss to throw into the mix as well as a few others.

dangull · Oct 26, 2020

Not trying to belittle Hamilton's great achievements, but its interesting that when he didn't have the best car, his team mate Jenson Button scored more points than him in 1 season and wasn't far behind him in the other seasons when they were team mates. Button would not be considered as one of the greats.

He is definitely up there as no1 for me, but Phil Taylor 16 world titles and O'sullivan would be in the same conversation, although those sports are not well known in a lot of countries.

Pint of Ale and a Burger · Oct 26, 2020

I would say yes Lewis Hamilton is the greatest British sportsman at this moment.
He has now broken the record of a man whose record looked unbeatable at the time and Hamilton's career is not yet over so he will likely go on to smash the record.
Hamilton is the best driver Britain has produced and is now the best in F1 history the pinnacle of international Motorsport.
The titles and podiums he has one speak for themselves.
Most of the arguments against are pretty weak to be honest .
Well done Lewis,thanks for giving us something to be proud of and adding to our rich history of fantastic British sport.

jakarta · Oct 26, 2020

Madafwo said:
Don't take this the wrong way but why use machinery from Clark's era, why not put Jim in the current Mercedes in the completely hypothetical and impossible situation? Maybe a best of three situation, a 49, Lewis' current car and one from the 80's with a mad turbo engine?

I love the fact that we can have these situations where we get to discuss two of the best drivers ever to have graced the planet and they're both British. You've then got Stewart and Moss to throw into the mix as well as a few others.

I suppose it it because the 1967 car had a manual gearbox, would be interesting to say the least to see how the latest mob would cope. As I have already stated, Jim Clark raced such a huge variety of cars, I wouldn't have all at surprised to seen him breaking lap records in both the turbo and modern eras. A shame he lived and died in a time that Motor Racing was so bloody dangerous.

Madafwo · Oct 26, 2020

jakarta said:
I suppose it it because the 1967 car had a manual gearbox, would be interesting to say the least to see how the latest mob would cope. As I have already stated, Jim Clark raced such a huge variety of cars, I wouldn't have all at surprised to seen him breaking lap records in both the turbo and modern eras. A shame he lived and died in a time that Motor Racing was so bloody dangerous.

I agree with you, Jim Clark is the #1 in my eyes based purely on how many other drivers from that era rate him and the breadth of machinery he won in. I just wish that drivers these days would showcase their talents in different disciplines.

Manual gearboxes are one challenge but the modern stuff is so complicated by comparison it's a completely different skill set which is why in these fantasy comparisons I'd have to have them drive at least their respective machines. Mad turbo 80's cars would be in there just for gits and shiggles, also with a manual gearbox.

Pavilionaire · Oct 26, 2020

I think now Lewis Hamilton has broken the record for most Grand Prix wins he presents a good case for being the greatest living British sportsman.

However, it wouldn't sit right if our greatest ever has still won less Driver titles than Michael Schumacher who - in all probability - is behind Franz Beckenbauer as the Greatest Living German Sportsman.

Therefore - for me- it is still Sir Steve Redgrave.

crodonilson · Oct 26, 2020

Dissapointing some people seem to think that people who disagree with the view Hamilton is the greatest must automatically be racist. For whatever reason Britain has an uncomfortable relationship with proper winners, always happier supporting the underdog. Take Chris Froome, probably our greatest ever cyclist who has very little popularity but is white, then in the 90s with Bruno and Lewis, one was a loveable underdog, the other the greatest of his generation in a time of some truly great heavyweights, we all know who was more popular with the British public. I understand why people don't like Hamilton or necessarily rate him as the best but that doesn't mean they're all racist.

For me Murray is probably the greatest living British sportsman. Won less titles but in a truly magnificent era of tennis, not sure Hamilton's rivals are in a comparable league, plus it's easier to compare tennis players because they're not reliant on a good car to be competitive, when Murray plays in any tournament he does so on an even playing field with all of his competitors.

FatSuperman · Oct 26, 2020

crodonilson said:
Dissapointing some people seem to think that people who disagree with the view Hamilton is the greatest must automatically be racist. For whatever reason Britain has an uncomfortable relationship with proper winners, always happier supporting the underdog. Take Chris Froome, probably our greatest ever cyclist who has very little popularity but is white, then in the 90s with Bruno and Lewis, one was a loveable underdog, the other the greatest of his generation in a time of some truly great heavyweights, we all know who was more popular with the British public. I understand why people don't like Hamilton or necessarily rate him as the best but that doesn't mean they're all racist.

For me Murray is probably the greatest living British sportsman. Won less titles but in a truly magnificent era of tennis, not sure Hamilton's rivals are in a comparable league, plus it's easier to compare tennis players because they're not reliant on a good car to be competitive, when Murray plays in any tournament he does so on an even playing field with all of his competitors.

Most of the ‘reasoning’ against Lewis being the greatest sportsman is due to personal things. And not about his spirting achievements. Tax affairs, veganism, ‘whining’, BLM. Come on Crodo. Most of it is bollocks. If people don’t like him, fair enough. I find him refreshing in a field full of media robots. Each to their own.

FatSuperman · Oct 26, 2020

dangull said:
Not trying to belittle Hamilton's great achievements, but its interesting that when he didn't have the best car, his team mate Jenson Button scored more points than him in 1 season and wasn't far behind him in the other seasons when they were team mates. Button would not be considered as one of the greats.

He is definitely up there as no1 for me, but Phil Taylor 16 world titles and O'sullivan would be in the same conversation, although those sports are not well known in a lot of countries.

Button was nowhere near Hamilton. Button has his best ever season when Hamilton has one of his worst. In 2012 Hamilton had three DNFs from P1, that’s 75 points alone! It’s the same as the Rosberg situation. Leo’s has to have a torrid year in mechanical failures or avoidable collisions (driver at fault) for his team mate to have much of a chance.

It really doesn’t matter what other’s opinion of him is. He is absolutely clearly one of the best F1 drivers that has ever lived.

Bold Seagull · Oct 26, 2020

FatSuperman said:
It really doesn’t matter what other’s opinion of him is. He is absolutely clearly one of the best F1 drivers that has ever lived.

When Mansell was winning Britain loved F1. Hamilton winning, it's not really a sport...

Green Cross Code Man · Oct 26, 2020

Bold Seagull said:
When Mansell was winning Britain loved F1. Hamilton winning, it's not really a sport...

I know very little about the 'sport' but it is my impression that formula one has become far more processional since the 80's and less popular therefore?

Bold Seagull · Oct 26, 2020

Green Cross Code Man said:
I know very little about the 'sport' but it is my impression that formula one has become far more processional since the 80's and less popular therefore?

It's always had dominant cars and other than truly memorable seasons can be largely processional, but arguably it was more so in the past. McLaren won 9 out of 16 titles from the 80s. Williams won 4 out of 6. Next Ferrari won 6 out of 8. It was never more processional than when Mansell won it still with 5 races still to go - I think that is still some kind of record.

For me it's not that it's more processional, it's that it went off free to air broadcasting, and started dropping familiar European and classic race tracks for far flung places, night races, the far east etc. I got into it because you could tune in on a Sunday afternoon to Murray Walker and James Hunt and pretty much snooze an afternoon doing nothing better than watching cars go round and round as there wasn't football or other sports competing for your viewing time back then. It's all become a bit detached. Feel cricket has gone the same way to some degree.

worthingseagull123 · Oct 26, 2020

Is driving a car a sport?

jakarta · Oct 26, 2020

Bold Seagull said:
It's always had dominant cars and other than truly memorable seasons can be largely processional, but arguably it was more so in the past. McLaren won 9 out of 16 titles from the 80s. Williams won 4 out of 6. Next Ferrari won 6 out of 8. It was never more processional than when Mansell won it still with 5 races still to go - I think that is still some kind of record.

For me it's not that it's more processional, it's that it went off free to air broadcasting, and started dropping familiar European and classic race tracks for far flung places, night races, the far east etc. I got into it because you could tune in on a Sunday afternoon to Murray Walker and James Hunt and pretty much snooze an afternoon doing nothing better than watching cars go round and round as there wasn't football or other sports competing for your viewing time back then. It's all become a bit detached. Feel cricket has gone the same way to some degree.

It has been a bit rubbish for a long time, despite the fact it killed many of it's contestants, the 1970's-80's era was the best.

That would be your Niki Lauda/James Hunt of course...

neilbard · Oct 26, 2020

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