[Albion] The Alzate error

Seasider78 · Sep 15, 2020

lost in london said:
Worth having a look at Potter's interview on the BBC website. Obviously he doesn't deny Alzate didn't play a great pass, but he put more of the blame on Ryan for passing Alzate the ball in that situation. As others have said, the cock up happened very shortly after we were on the attack, as a result some of our players were not where they needed to be, which meant the short ball, pass it round the back option shouldn't have been taken.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/54156594

Little bit of protecting a young player there I think and Ryan may have had a part to play but Alzate played the pass blind when he had space to control and look up.

It happens and was one mistake in an otherwise very strong performance from him. Personally I think he will go onto the nail that position in the first team but whilst I rate him highly i think painting this as someone else’s error is a bit far fetched.

He will learn from it all players make mistakes that can often prove costly as Dunk and Maupay did in the same game by missing the kind of chances you usually seen them put away with ease. First game of the season we can all excuse a bit of ring rust

Stat Brother · Sep 15, 2020

Mot to mention the fact it was a fairly stoooopid question.

GPott isn't going to answer:-

"Oh yes I'm quite happy to accept that failing going forward".

Cozzy · Sep 15, 2020

gonna stick my neck out ... prepare to have it chopped (not read all posts in this thread) .... its as if SA had been watching how Stephens plays a little too much and using him as a role model

OK I get me basket to catch me head

lost in london · Sep 15, 2020

albionalex said:
That's your interpretation.

Not really, Potter said: “The initial decision to play there wasn’t the best for us, we’d just finished an attack ourselves and a lot of bodies were high so the reward for the pass maybe we need to look at’

phoenix · Sep 15, 2020

Keith Patel said:
If that was Stephens or Propper there would've been 836 threads about how crap they are.

Bit different as Alzate was only 22 last week (with not many prem games behind him) i would have thought.

albionalex · Sep 15, 2020

lost in london said:
Not really, Potter said: “The initial decision to play there wasn’t the best for us, we’d just finished an attack ourselves and a lot of bodies were high so the reward for the pass maybe we need to look at’

You're missing out the word 'maybe'. He said “The initial decision to play there maybe wasn’t the best for us".

And what pass is he talking about? Ryan? Alzate?

phoenix · Sep 15, 2020

wellquickwoody said:
But the time after that perhaps Propper will, and a couple of games later Stephens could do it again.

It is a risky strategy that has cost us more than once.

One good thing, we didn't concede many (if any?) free kicks just outside our box.

GT49er · Sep 15, 2020

Kalimantan Gull said:
I've seen the big 6 do it - it happens with that style of play. I like that we do it, I know others would rather we play a Burnley or Palace style but that's not for me

Don't worry - as soon as we get that big striker everybody is shouting for, Potter will heave a sigh of relief and give Dunk, Webster, White and Ryan carte blanche to hoof the ball upfield as far and as fast as possible.

Proper football again at last! :thumbsup:

Wardy's twin · Sep 15, 2020

albionalex said:
I don't think Ryan was trying to foul him...

true but there's not a penalty everytime a goal keeper comes out to get a ball.

Baldseagull · Sep 15, 2020

keaton said:
It's not though is it. We conceded and gave away a lot of stupid chances to the opposition the same way last season. We are often choosing the wrong risky option (where any mistake will lead to a chance) rather than passing to a player who might be able to do something with the ball.

When you fell off your bike the first time, did you decide to not ride a bike at all and just run everywhere, or did you get back on, fall off a number of further times until you got to the point where you very rarely fall off the bike?
Potter wants to play this way, the players need to get better at doing it, and they will.

keaton · Sep 15, 2020

Baldseagull said:
When you fell off your bike the first time, did you decide to not ride a bike at all and just run everywhere, or did you get back on, fall off a number of further times until you got to the point where you very rarely fall off the bike?
Potter wants to play this way, the players need to get better at doing it, and they will.

Maybe. Maybe Potter needs to get better at coaching.

Sheebo · Sep 15, 2020

Uh_huh_him said:
I thought it was apparent that Ryan kicked long far more frequently last night.
I think there is a move to mix it up more, than we did last season.

I didn't see anything wrong with the pass to Alzate, he was in space and the error was not caused by the press, it was just a shit pass.

I actually thought we were back to going short an awful lot. Against Burnley in the last game we most definitely went long a lot more. Way more than last night imo...

FWIW I don’t like Ryan playing that central ball to a player who gets put under instant pressure and swarmed. I don’t like it at all. Wide yes, but central is an issue and too risky. Felt for Alzate a bit.

The Wizard · Sep 15, 2020

sheebo said:
I actually thought we were back to going short an awful lot. Against Burnley in the last game we most definitely went long a lot more. Way more than last night imo...

FWIW I don’t like Ryan playing that central ball to a player who gets put under instant pressure and swarmed. I don’t like it at all. Wide yes, but central is an issue and too risky. Felt for Alzate a bit.

Normally I would agree, the central pass like the one against Liverpool at home I think last season is a very risky pass against a team that press, but there is a reason it’s more risky, passing the ball in the middle attracts players into the middle which means if you beat the press it opens up the game massively, I think what Potter was saying is the value in that pass at that exact moment was small, as our players weren’t positioned correctly.

I don’t feel sorry for Alzate, he had loads of time and space, way more than you are normally afforded in the middle of the park in this league, that awful pass wasn’t anything to do with him being put under pressure, it was under hit and misplaced. I like the fact Potter has protected him though, as he’s the kind of player we need in that position.

Shooting Star · Sep 15, 2020

Haven't read all 8 pages but I'll write what I put in another thread last night:

Not the universal opinion I know, but I'm not blaming Alzate for the goal. Sure, it was a naive mistake. However, that goal all stemmed from a throw-in we had NEAR CHELSEA's CORNER FLAG, after our most dangerous attack of the game. We threw it 20 yards backwards, 5 seconds later it's with Maty and 5 seconds further it's a penalty. Why on earth throw it towards the halfway line when we're in such an attacking position?

clockend1983 · Sep 15, 2020

super-seagulls said:
We will make mistakes and concede easy goals. Our possession and attacking play is now so much better, that despite a few errors we will succeed in the long term.
Even VVD misplaced a short pass for Liverpool the other day gifting Leeds a goal. Are you saying Liverpool shouldn’t play out from the back as well?

If you do not move with the times you get left behind.

No not really
If you read what I posted it referred to one particular pattern of playing out from the back that we have come unstuck with for a while so I think that may need some tweeking
I don’t really care what Liverpool do

dejavuatbtn · Sep 15, 2020

It’s not dissimilar to loads of other goals we’ve given away in the past. If you don’t look what you’re doing, expect to trip up. Players today are paid to have eyes in the back of their heads.

blue-shifted · Sep 15, 2020

Seasider78 said:
Little bit of protecting a young player there I think and Ryan may have had a part to play but Alzate played the pass blind when he had space to control and look up.

It happens and was one mistake in an otherwise very strong performance from him. Personally I think he will go onto the nail that position in the first team but whilst I rate him highly i think painting this as someone else’s error is a bit far fetched.

He will learn from it all players make mistakes that can often prove costly as Dunk and Maupay did in the same game by missing the kind of chances you usually seen them put away with ease. First game of the season we can all excuse a bit of ring rust

I support us playing out from the back. However the pass to the central midfielder facing goal is never really the percentage pass, they are under huge pressure when receiving this ball. Maty's first port of call should be to look for a full back. They can then look in field and the CM will then be in a much better body position to see and play a forward pass. Also then if there is a cock up, the attacking player we've given it to is wider giving more time for defensive cover to get back.

vagabond · Sep 15, 2020

keaton said:
Maybe. Maybe Potter needs to get better at coaching.

Really?

Silly comment.

albionalex · Sep 15, 2020

blue-shifted said:
Maty's first port of call should be to look for a full back. They can then look in field and the CM will then be in a much better body position to see and play a forward pass.

This allows the opposition to have 10 men behind the ball.

mreprice · Sep 15, 2020

They don't show it on the replay but if you go back half a second Alzate has his arm up calling for the ball. Ryan should have probably ignored him, but it was Alzate's idea.

I'm also not sure that would be Potters game plan in that situation. Look at the photo. Within half a second of the ball arriving there is an almost perfect square of four defenders surrounding him. Even without the miskick he had limited options and they were high risk

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