Megazone
On his last warning
Would you compare him to the likes of Ferguson and Wenger?
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[Football] Marcelo Bielsa - is he the Messiah
- Thread starter Icy Gull
- Start date
Would you compare him to the likes of Ferguson and Wenger?
The same Brighton squad bar Murray, Knockaert and Duffy finished 20th in 2014/15. They then spent almost all of the next two season in the top 3, much of it in the top 2. So all you've basically said is Bielsa is a more expensive Chris Hughton.
Nope and not because I think he is better or worse but because its just impossible to compare anyone with managers who stayed for 20+ years and essentially became their clubs. Feck do I know how SAF would manage a few years in Bilbao or what would happen if Bielsa coached United for 26 years.
Its just impossible to compare.
Or just a very naughty boy (let’s get that out of the way from the start)
I am astounded that after two seasons in the Championship and promotion from a frankly average league last season that Leeds fans are so convinced that he is something really special.
Then I checked who has been managing them for the last 16 years and it all becomes clear as to why they are now creaming their pants over their manager
Is there a decent one in there that you wish had managed the Albion?
Kevin Blackwell – 1 June 2004 – 20 September 2006
John Carver – 21 September 2006 – 23 October 2006
David Geddis – 24 October 2006 – 24 October 2006
Dennis Wise – 24 October 2006 – 28 January 2008
Gwyn Williams – 29 January 2008 – 29 January 2008
I think he will fail because Premier League clubs tend to have higher fences around their training grounds.
And he's a very naughty boy.
Megazone
On his last warning
That's a fair point but we must respect that Ferguson not only had league success with Aberdeen but he had European success with them too beating Real Madrid in the final. That is what I would call a legendary manager. Biesla is obviously a good manager but to call him the Messiah for getting Leeds promoted from the 2nd division is just ridiculous. That's not something anyone would call against the odds like the stuff Ferguson achieved. Leeds have always had the advantage of attracting players due to their reputation whilst they've been financially broke and playing in the lower leagues. They've massively underachieved in taking 16 years to get back to the top flight. Arsenal went a whole season unbeaten the last time Leeds were top flight. They should be embarrassed a club like them took so long to get back. Why do Sheffield Wednesday come to mind?
No disrespect to Biesla but the way Leeds are treating him as if he's the greatest manager they've ever had just shows how down the tiers they've really gone.
father_and_son
Well-known member
How could you? Both are noted for both their success *and* the length of their tenure at the respective clubs.
Bielsa is far too fickle to stay at any one club long enough to achieve the status of Fergie or Wenger.
Megazone
On his last warning
As mentioned above, what Ferguson did at Aberdeen is arguably his greatest achievement.
father_and_son
Well-known member
Point still stands though. Can you see Bielsa staying at Leeds for 8+ years?
smillie's garden
Am I evil?
- Aug 11, 2003
- 2,602
Well, Newell's Old Boys (NOB) - a club Bielsa played for and coached - are nicknamed La Lepra (The Lepers.) Lepers are known associates of messiahs.
jessiejames
Never late in a V8
Very much over rated. 40 years in management not a lot to show for it. All this deal about improving players, where is the proof? Before anyone say Ben White, he was a very good player before going to Leeds. If Bucketman is as good at making players outstanding, why are they in the transfer market buying players when he can use the U23's, why was he against taking White before he went to Peterborough?
I would like to see him sign a new contract, to see how good he is, but I don't expect him to be at Leeds at the end of this season.
I would like to see him sign a new contract, to see how good he is, but I don't expect him to be at Leeds at the end of this season.
Megazone
On his last warning
Probably not. I also can't see him keeping Leeds up if he does stay for the forthcoming season.
They're nowhere near the quality Wolves were when they got promoted. They've got a squad of good 2nd division players eg Bamford. They're not a team who outclassed the 2nd division and seeing how desperate they were for one of our youngsters after promotion shows the obvious lack of quality they've got and had in winning that division.
Comparing him to Ferguson or Wenger is ridiculous. Loyalty isn't what determines great managers. Yes loyalty is something we should respect but not something that determines someones ability. Biesla's lack of loyalty isn't why you can't compare him to Ferguson. It's the fact all he has done in the English game so far is win the 2nd division. It's almost disrespectful to even put him in the same brackets as the likes of Ferguson, Clough, Wenger etc. Mickey Adams transformed a 4th division team with no money, no stadium and a very uncertain future into a 2nd division quality outfit through signing players for peanuts and turning Bristol Rovers rejects into England capped, UEFA Cup top goal scorers. That still doesn't mean he's as good as Ferguson.
jessiejames
Never late in a V8
The poorest standard Championship in 10 years.
withdeanwombat
Well-known member
A re-imagining of Oor Wullie
Sits on a bucket and speaks a language it’s hard to understand.
So that’s a no from me.
Sits on a bucket and speaks a language it’s hard to understand.
So that’s a no from me.
Dick Knights Mumm
Take me Home Falmer Road
Leeds have just had a season of seasons. A large part of that has been due to the manager. Why the need to piss on their chips? Good luck to them. I would like another one.
Megazone
On his last warning
Totally agree. This is a huge achievement for a club like Leeds. Unbelievable they managed to get promoted from the 2nd division. What next? Celtic winning the SPL?
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
They won the Championship but as I read it, they got exactly the same number of points, WD&L as we did in 16/17, so not that remarkable.
HastingsSeagull
Well-known member
Covid break helped him a lot. That said I wanted him for England years ago and got grief on here. Think he suits International football more than a full league season.
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
Word from the training ground is that BW is already starting to lose the magical powers Bielsa gave him. Picked up the ball in the middle of a training match and started trying to pick at the stitching.
Had to be wrestled away from him by two of the coaches apparently.
Had to be wrestled away from him by two of the coaches apparently.
I agree that the Aberdeen story was his greatest success and that Bielsa have had no moment at that level... though that could be said for almost every manager. Rehagel winning both with Greece and the Bundesliga with Kaiserslautern (as newcomers) might be up there, Eriksson winning the UEFA Cup with amateurs, and Leicester winning the PL... they are similar level but none of them managed to manage a top team for 25 years.
Meaning... you could be a great manager without being as great as Ferguson. Bielsa took Athletic Bilbao to a Europa League final and Newell's Old Boys to the Copa Libertadores final, not quite Aberdeen level but great surprises nonetheless.
If Ferguson & Wenger were appointed today I could (sadly) not see them last as long as they did. Ferguson came in to rebuild United and as football/the club grew, he was in the middle of it and became the centre of everything. Pretty much the same with Wenger in Arsenal. When they were building their new arena Wenger was even present at the meeting with the bank and forced to promise that he would stay for five years, or they would not get the loan.
Things like that does not happen anymore. Clubs are too big to ever let a manager have full control of everything. I doubt any of the present managers in the PL will manage their current club five years from now. Potter is perhaps the most likely as I dont think he will agree to work with absent foreign owners again, I think he found out how difficult that is while at Swansea.