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Sweden’s Coronovirus strategy will soon be the worlds



Swansman

Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Springal said:
Not really, I just think we should stop going on about the 'Swedish model' and what a success it has been. It hasn't been successful in preserving life and the economy has not done significantly better than anywhere else. Lose / Lose situation really.
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If you look through this thread you'll find that a vast majority does not speak of Swedish success, rather the reverse.

As for "preserving life" it depends on how you define it and as for the economy there is no certain way of telling, but since our economy is more dependent on global growth than most countries (we sell shit no one needs in a pandemic), I think it is likely the Swedish economy would have been among those taking the worst hit if we would have gone into lockdown.
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,315
Albion Dan said:
Laughable that the article uses its data set from June 7th when cases were still rising in Sweden.They've literally set the goal posts where they would still allow the story to work. It's also a short term view of the picture. Its what the long term looks like that's absolutely key and what all good leadership should be prioritising. Sweded number of deaths 13 Oct = ZERO. How can anyone argue their approach isn't better than the UKS? We have higher cases, deaths, and restrictions!
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brilliant, claim dataset moves goal posts then come back with a dataset of one day. was 2 on 12th. so did they just cure covid? amazing.
 


Albion Dan

Albion Dan

Banned
Jul 8, 2003
11,125
Peckham
Weststander said:
Faced with that article and [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION]'s cutting remark, you've resorted to whataboutery with the UK.

We all already know that the UK, and Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain and Italy have had huge numbers of avoidable CV19 deaths. Real people, real loved ones.

The point is that the Danes and Germans got this right, whilst the aforementioned countries through varying strategies or inertia, got it wrong.

If the Swedish strategy had been adopted in France, the UK or Spain for example, the respective death tolls would've been even worse.

Regarding NZ, they have the advantage of being literally thousands of miles away from the rest of humanity, plus they got Covid much later, giving them a heads up. Their first death was on 29th March, compared to:
France - 14th Feb
Spain - 13th Feb
UK - 4th Mar
Italy - 21st Feb
USA - 26th Feb
Interestingly, NZ and PM Ardern have been slagged off on NSC by Covid libertarians as draconian and fascist.
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:lolol: Darren gave a cutting remark, as if that would bother me in the slightest. I'm not surprised either he seems to have resorted to name calling these days to people that he doesn't agree with. I also think I gave a very credible challenge to that article which you totally ignored.

Last I saw Berlin was in Curfew, I don't think they are a good example at all although they have kept deaths down. I'd actually be really interested to know if they measure deaths in the same way as us as there seems no correlation between cases to deaths when you compare UK ad Germany.

You've completely let the point about leadership at either end of the spectrum go ignored. It's undeniable that Sweden and NZ have had one consistent clear message from the outset, easy for their people to follow with an end goal and both are now in very good shape. That's good leadership. I've criticised NZ as think that the rule of plucking postive cases from there homes is awful but at least they took strong decisions from the outset. They had certainly set their strategy far before the UK.
 
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e77

e77

Well-known member
May 23, 2004
7,268
Worthing
Funnily enough the people actually involved in planning end executing the Swedish response have more or less said it works for them but might not work for other countries.

Had we adopted the same response we would have had more deaths and quite possibly civil disorder and a change of government (although I could have coped with the last one). If you think several thousand anti-lockdown protestors in Trafalgar Square made an impression, a hundred thousand people who have lost relatives due to government inaction might have caused a revolution.
 


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
64,068
Withdean area
Albion Dan said:
:lolol: Darren gave a cutting remark, as if that would bother me in the slightest. I'm not surprised either he seems to have resorted to name calling these days to people that he doesn't agree with. I also think I gave a very credible challenge to that article which you totally ignored.

Last I saw Berlin was in Curfew, I don't think they are a good example at all although they have kept deaths down. I'd actually be really interested to know if they measure deaths in the same way as us as there seems no correlation between cases to deaths when you compare UK ad Germany.

You've completely let the point about leadership at either end of the spectrum go ignored. It's undeniable that Sweden and NZ have had one consistent clear message from the outset, easy for their people to follow with an end goal and both are now in very good shape. That's good leadership. I've criticised NZ as think that the rule of plucking postive cases from there homes is awful but at least they took strong decisions from the outset. They had certainly set their strategy far before the UK.
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One key difference though.

Sweden - a consistent message and sadly a high death toll.
NZ - a consistent message and low death toll.

As neither of us live in Berlin, I'd be grateful if [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] could give his take. Including whether the following is a fair summary:
"Last I saw Berlin was in Curfew, I don't think they are a good example at all although they have kept deaths down. I'd actually be really interested to know if they measure deaths in the same way as us as there seems no correlation between cases to deaths when you compare UK and Germany".
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,628
The Fatherland
Weststander said:
One key difference though.

Sweden - a consistent message and sadly a high death toll.
NZ - a consistent message and low death toll.

As neither of us live in Berlin, I'd be grateful if [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] could give his take. Including whether the following is a fair summary:
"Last I saw Berlin was in Curfew, I don't think they are a good example at all although they have kept deaths down. I'd actually be really interested to know if they measure deaths in the same way as us as there seems no correlation between cases to deaths when you compare UK and Germany".
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Berlin introduced early closing, 23:00, for bars and restaurants and Spätis (off licenses) last Saturday. It’s expected to last until end of this month. That’s all though i.e. there’s no restrictions on numbers and households meeting indoors or out etc.

I have not kept up to date with how actual Covid deaths are measured as there are clear inter and intra country differences...excess deaths is, imho, the best way to estimate the impact associated with the virus.

As for a good example? They have got a hell of lot right, from quick decisive action, to testing to contact tracing to hospital beds to very early hospital admission (taking all cases as opposed to telling patients to only present themselves to hospital if moderate or severe) to the app to simple very clear instructions devoid of any political waffle. They have also got most of this right at the first attempt. Why would the Germans not be a good example?
 


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
64,068
Withdean area
Herr Tubthumper said:
Berlin introduced early closing, 23:00, for bars and restaurants and Spätis (off licenses) last Saturday. It’s expected to last until end of this month. That’s all though i.e. there’s no restrictions on numbers and households meeting indoors or out etc.

I have not kept up to date with how actual Covid deaths are measured as there are clear inter and intra country differences...excess deaths is, imho, the best way to estimate the impact associated with the virus.

As for a good example? They have got a hell of lot right, from quick decisive action, to testing to contact tracing to hospital beds to very early hospital admission (taking all cases as opposed to telling patients to only present themselves to hospital if moderate or severe) to the app to simple very clear instructions devoid of any political waffle. They have also got most of this right at the first attempt. Why would the Germans not be a good example?
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Envious on these shores.
 


Albion Dan

Albion Dan

Banned
Jul 8, 2003
11,125
Peckham
Herr Tubthumper said:
Berlin introduced early closing, 23:00, for bars and restaurants and Spätis (off licenses) last Saturday. It’s expected to last until end of this month. That’s all though i.e. there’s no restrictions on numbers and households meeting indoors or out etc.

I have not kept up to date with how actual Covid deaths are measured as there are clear inter and intra country differences...excess deaths is, imho, the best way to estimate the impact associated with the virus.

As for a good example? They have got a hell of lot right, from quick decisive action, to testing to contact tracing to hospital beds to very early hospital admission (taking all cases as opposed to telling patients to only present themselves to hospital if moderate or severe) to the app to simple very clear instructions devoid of any political waffle. They have also got most of this right at the first attempt. Why would the Germans not be a good example?
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To be fair they certainly are a far better example than the UK. The government are now bordering on criminal negligence from both a health and social damage perspective.
 






e77

e77

Well-known member
May 23, 2004
7,268
Worthing
Albion Dan said:
To be fair they certainly are a far better example than the UK. The government are now bordering on criminal negligence from both a health and social damage perspective.
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Slightly annoyingly, I agree with you on that.
 






K

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,913
hassocks
e77 said:
To slightly go off topic it would help if we had proper devolution in England so decisions like this could be made locally.
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On this we agree.

It makes zero sense to have London calling the shots in Manchester

Or running track and trace - why not have locals that know the area.
 


e77

e77

Well-known member
May 23, 2004
7,268
Worthing
Kinky Gerbils said:
On this we agree.

It makes zero sense to have London calling the shots in Manchester

Or running track and trace - why not have locals that know the area.
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Now means I have agreed with you and Albion Dan in the space of an hour. Can you keep this to yourself?
 










e77

e77

Well-known member
May 23, 2004
7,268
Worthing
I once went to a festival in Germany and the locals appeared on the Monday before, put their tent up to get a good spot then came back on the Thursday.

Without wishing to roll out the national stereotypes they were probably always going to cope better than we were.
 


Yoda

Yoda

English & European
Mar 1, 2004
10,059
Worthing, West Sussex, United Kingdom
Sweden's approach would've probably worked IF they had protected the elderly better. Unfortunately for them, they made as big a hash of that as we did. Both Countries had the early warnings from Spain & Italy on how quickly it ravaged through their elderly population and care homes, but didn't do any where near enough. We STILL aren't looking at the percentage of new infections being from within the care home settings from week 40 (18%).
 




S

Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,849
GOSBTS
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