Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

Megazone · Sep 22, 2020

Guinness Boy said:
I'm jumping on this one because you're talking bollocks. If the majority of people were disobeying the rules I'd expect you to be able to state that with more than one personal anecdote.

The only person who's talking bollocks is you. Show me where I've said the majority are disobeying the rules? I just mentioned what I saw yesterday in the city centre and now you're trying to turn that into something else. E77's point was from what he'd seen too. Why aren't you using this argument on him as well?

You really are desperate for an argument aren't you?

Here's the discussion you're trying to turn into something else

e77 said:
From my experience a vast majority of people are obeying the rules and doing their part in protecting their fellow citizens.

Megazone said:
You should've seen the Lanes today. North Laine was even worse. Trafalgar Street was ridiculous. I've never seen it more crammed. Are we still doing the social distancing or is it just masks now?

e77 said:
People do need to take some responsibility. If somewhere is busy then don't go there.

Megazone said:
That can't apply to everyone, surely? Some people live and work in these places. And anyway what's that got to do with you saying the vast majority of people are obeying the rules?

e77 said:
I think the vast majority of people do and you are producing an anecdote out of the air to support your argument. Ultimately if problem areas are identified the local authorities will invoke powers to sort them out, including the proposed Covid marshalls.

Obviously this wouldn't be needed if everyone exercised common sense and showed some consideration for other people but if they want to give the government more reasons to bring in stricter laws then they can crack on.

It is temporarily the law of the land, not a negotiation.

Megazone said:
I don't think Worthing is a great example of the vast majority to be honest with you. Brighton City centre is a much better example when using the term 'Vast majority'.

Now how about that meditation you've been advised on? Would stop all this crap I and a few others have to endure from you night and day, and might make you a nicer person...

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 22, 2020

So

6 months
Army can be called in
Instead of answering about testing flaws goes on a random attack on SKS
Mixed messaging on furlough

highflyer · Sep 22, 2020

beorhthelm said:
what if these points are compatible? if the best way to protect the NHS and keep schools open is to keep vulnerable in a supported, semi-locked down state?

so far the policy seems to be to keep every one out of maxium lockdown, until we reach a point needing to keep everyone in increasing levels of lockdown. if we focus on who needs to be in lockdown, we have more leeway. that is what the science tells us btw.

I'd be open to some level of differentiation between more vulnerable and less vulnerable in principle. Although it's going to be hard to define and communicate clearly.

I'd oppose a new 'total shielding' regime though - that's just not fair or sustainable. And some people don't have that option longer term.Top most in my mind is a friend who is highly vulnerable (both to covid and to the impact of an overwhelmed health service - either one could quite likely kill him). But his wife works for a large institution and has not been given the option to work from home (long story, not good). They can't afford for her to lose her job. As long as levels of covid are relatively low she can manage and minimise her risks, and they can deal with it. But if levels rise fast and high, I really fear for his health - both physical and mental.

So I don't think you can just let it rip, even with some people taking a higher level of care.

And I also don't think we need to. The Swedish and German examples are both important. A clear and consistent approach, developing ways of living that can be maintained long term if need be, and adjusted not based on latest figures, or the need to make people happy, but based on how good our testing and tracing is, and thus how confident we are that we can keep levels down. And approach that suits us, our society and our economy. Surely that's not beyond us.

Is it?

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 22, 2020

Kinky Gerbils said:
So

6 months
Army can be called in
Instead of answering about testing flaws goes on a random attack on SKS
Mixed messaging on furlough

What a total mess; he’s lost the plot. This really isn’t going to end well.

As an aside, what will the army be asked to do?

Bozza · Sep 22, 2020

Weststander said:
To clarify, I don't think you're advocating Tegnell's overall strategy from start to finish in any way, instead picking up that it could be a good thing to not flip on restrictions as the waves come and go?

I'd be interested to know how exactly the Danes for example have managed this so well? Do they reimpose restrictions or not?

As I said Tegnell won't claim Sweden have done well - death figures and economic impact are far greater there than their neighbours for a start.

But the principle of trying to find a consistent level of measures, so everyone know and understands where they are, is what we should be aiming for. We've flip-flopped about too much, eg Work at home - You should go to work - Shit, work at home again.

It's easier said than done, clearly, but we've been a long way from hitting that consistent approach and associated messaging.

beorhthelm · Sep 22, 2020

well if one thing said was sensible, predicting current measures stay for 6 mths. thats what people want, a bit of stability to plan and settle into routine.

sadly they dont seem to realise number of testing isnt necessarily the problem, its the testing system thats flawed.

LamieRobertson · Sep 22, 2020

beorhthelm said:
whats the source? that suggests the current policy is wildy of target and they should be having some hard words with care homes. its not consistent with data on age groups rising.

I find that chart for care homes astonishing ...was there anything in BJ’s speech today relating to that?

LamieRobertson · Sep 22, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
What a total mess; he’s lost the plot. This really isn’t going to end well.

As an aside, what will the army be asked to do?

Yes I’d like some clarification on that point

sydney · Sep 22, 2020

Albion Dan said:
Anyone get the impression things are being said just to terrify everybody? What is Whittys case rise prediction based on? Certainly not France or Spain!

View attachment 128593

oh it must be handy being able to see a month into the future ffs........imagine all the norberts shitting themselves , going out and stripping the shops of bog roll , spaghetti , rice and mincemeat again ....ffs , who thinks this shit up and what are their motives .?

sydney · Sep 22, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
What a total mess; he’s lost the plot. This really isn’t going to end well.

As an aside, what will the army be asked to do?

wipe Hailsham off the map...??

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 22, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
What a total mess; he’s lost the plot. This really isn’t going to end well.

As an aside, what will the army be asked to do?

Armed escort for Cummings to test eyesight in pub after 10?

pb21 · Sep 22, 2020

beorhthelm said:
well if one thing said was sensible, predicting current measures stay for 6 mths. thats what people want, a bit of stability to plan and settle into routine.

sadly they dont seem to realise number of testing isnt necessarily the problem, its the testing system thats flawed.

Do you understand that to include 'work from home if you can' too?

We were starting to go back into the office over the past few weeks!

beorhthelm · Sep 22, 2020

pb21 said:
Do you understand that to include 'work from home if you can' too?

We were starting to go back into the office over the past few weeks!

seems wavy on going to offices. imo we need offices open and people in work where its practical, can be done with reasonable distancing. a return to full lockdown of March/April risks full economic collapse, worse than the outcome from covid itself.

Is it PotG? · Sep 22, 2020

Kinky Gerbils said:
Armed escort for Cummings to test eyesight in pub after 10?

Does Cummings test eyesights?

Be great that, Specasvers in the boozer.

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 22, 2020

This is semi entertaining

He doesn’t think test and trace matters in Germany
Blaming the public when ever he can

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 22, 2020

Kinky Gerbils said:
This is semi entertaining

He doesn’t think test and trace matters in Germany
Blaming the public when ever he can

Really? Did he actually say this?

The Wizard · Sep 22, 2020

I was one who gave Boris and his scientific advisors the benefit of the doubt facing an unprecedented global crisis during the first few months of this crisis but even I’ve had enough at this point, it’s a total and utter farce. Restrictions could be in place for up to 6 months.... THEN WHAT? The magic phantom vaccine rides in to the rescue so we can all get back to norm.... oh wait no, they’ll be nothing left of the economy by this point. Absolutely baffled.

Also, ONS figures show excess deaths at home (not from COVID) are still WELL ABOVE average, absolutely shocking.

e77 · Sep 22, 2020

Megazone said:
I don't think Worthing is a great example of the vast majority to be honest with you. Brighton City centre is a much better example when using the term 'Vast majority'.

Yes, because everyone lives in Brighton. Anyway, if you are correct then these people have caused stricter rules to come in which will no doubt be enforced.

This isn't a negotiation. People will follow the new rules or face the consequence if they are in Worthing or Brighton.

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 22, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
Really? Did he actually say this?

Boris Johnson's answer just now to Ben Bradshaw's question:
Q: "Are lower rates in Italy and Germany due to locally run and effective testing?"
A: "No! No, stop knocking our testing, best in the world. It's because WE LOVE FREEDOM! Blah blah, democracy, fart fart"

beorhthelm · Sep 22, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
Really? Did he actually say this?

in response to a question i think he said comparison to Germany and France didnt matter. (edit, maybe havent got to the bit noted above)

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