[Football] Chris Houghton still unemployed

Bevendean Hillbilly · Jul 1, 2019

If Chris has any sense, which he does, he’ll take the next few weeks for a damn good holiday. Have a think about the fabulous skills he has and will go on to use. Put us behind him. Wait until someone is in trouble at Christmas, bottom half of EPL...just outside playoff in the Champs..and go on to either keep someone up or get someone up.

He has a VERY marketable skill set. Proven record in both scenarios, he’ll be alright. No need to rush things.

drew · Jul 1, 2019

Kneon Light said:
Against weak opposition.
You mention the Nations League - did you watch the England match? If so you would have noticed Propper came on in a deep lying midfield role. Rather than say he "does" play number 10 for Holland it would be more accurate to say that Holland tried him there but moved him back after 2 games.

The thing that really annoys me (and I'm not referring to you here at all) is that people criticise Hughton for playing people out of position but then say he should have played Propper in the no.10 role despite him having only played there twice. Locadia has played wide left many times in his career - yet when Hughton did it he was apparently out of position. Same for AJ who has played both left and right in his career yet again Hughton is criticised for playing him out of position. Some people absolutely ripped into Hughton for starting Gross in right midfield vs Newcastle yet this is where he played for a large part of his time at Ingolstadt.

It feels like to some people he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

I not going to claim I know a lot about Propper prior to coming to Brighton but I doubt he scored 16 goals in 67 games for PSV playing as a deep lying midfielder nor 18 goals for Vitesse in 142 games.

Kneon Light · Jul 1, 2019

drew said:
I not going to claim I know a lot about Propper prior to coming to Brighton but I doubt he scored 16 goals in 67 games for PSV playing as a deep lying midfielder nor 18 goals for Vitesse in 142 games.

My understanding (may be wrong) is that he was a central midfielder - not necessarily deep lying but not in the No. 10 role.

drew · Jul 1, 2019

Kneon Light said:
My understanding (may be wrong) is that he was a central midfielder - not necessarily deep lying but not in the No. 10 role.

I suspect the same of Stephens who had a good scoring record before coming here.

chaileyjem · Jul 1, 2019

drew said:
I not going to claim I know a lot about Propper prior to coming to Brighton but I doubt he scored 16 goals in 67 games for PSV playing as a deep lying midfielder nor 18 goals for Vitesse in 142 games.

He played as an attacking midfielder a few times early on in his career on the Erodivisie but according to this he was a CM the vast majority of times and DM a few times
Really don’t understand why this idea that Hughton played him out of position has come from. (Debate away how the team performance allowed him to get high up the pitch - but that’s a different issue)
And yes he’s played 14 times for Holland - but only twice as a AM or #10
See https://www.transfermarkt.com/davy-propper/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/79027

drew · Jul 1, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
I feel a few fans are trying to justify their posts by exaggerating what they thought. That says more about them than Hughton.

I hope that's not directed at me?

chaileyjem · Jul 1, 2019

drew said:
I suspect the same of Stephens who had a good scoring record before coming here.

He scored 21 goals for Oldham and Charlton in L1 in 160 games or so
And he’s scored 14 goals in 180 games for us in the Champ and Prem.
So largely the same .

drew · Jul 1, 2019

chaileyjem said:
He scored 21 goals for Oldham and Charlton in L1 in 160 games or so
And he’s scored 14 goals in 180 games for us in the Champ and Prem.
So largely the same .

Apart from the fact he has scored one goal in about the last 80 games which distorts it a bit.

Thunder Bolt · Jul 2, 2019

drew said:
I hope that's not directed at me?

I haven't directed my opinion at anyone.

darkwolf666 · Jul 2, 2019

drew said:
I suspect the same of Stephens who had a good scoring record before coming here.

Unfortunately another “fact” not borne out by the statistics, comparing like for like Dale Stephens scored 1 goal for every 9 Championship games played for Charlton, while for Brighton it was 1 in every 8.75 games.

He has no other comparison as a Premier League or League One player, where he did have a superior scoring record, bagging 1 in 5 for Oldham - however, I don’t feel it fair to compare someone’s scoring record from a far lower standard.

drew · Jul 2, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
I haven't directed my opinion at anyone.

Just a broad sweep then!!

drew · Jul 2, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
Unfortunately another “fact” not borne out by the statistics, comparing like for like Dale Stephens scored 1 goal for every 9 Championship games played for Charlton, while for Brighton it was 1 in every 8.75 games.

He has no other comparison as a Premier League or League One player, where he did have a superior scoring record, bagging 1 in 5 for Oldham - however, I don’t feel it fair to compare someone’s scoring record from a far lower standard.

I think the point is that in the last two seasons he has played very deep which was not the case before, lower level of football accepted.

darkwolf666 · Jul 2, 2019

drew said:
I think the point is that in the last two seasons he has played very deep which was not the case before, lower level of football accepted.

Yep, and I think you've covered it in lower level of football... It's not comparing like with like, is it? Yet it's another stick to beat Chris Hughton with...

Thunder Bolt · Jul 2, 2019

drew said:
Just a broad sweep then!!

I said a few fans. I'm not going to point any fingers.

chaileyjem · Jul 2, 2019

drew said:
I think the point is that in the last two seasons he has played very deep which was not the case before, lower level of football accepted.

He's played as a CM or a DM all his career. This hasn't changed at Brighton.
Like Propper, the reason for him not scoring goals are numerous, its the Premier League, the quality of the opposition, his form, the players getting forward ahead of him, chances created and so on. Are are you saying its all down to the fact , that in your view, because Hughton has told him to be play "very deep" - whatever that means.
Where do you think Potter will play him ?

blue-shifted · Jul 2, 2019

chaileyjem said:
He's played as a CM or a DM all his career. This hasn't changed at Brighton.
Like Propper, the reason for him not scoring goals are numerous, its the Premier League, the quality of the opposition, his form, the players getting forward ahead of him, chances created and so on. Are are you saying its all down to the fact , that in your view, because Hughton has told him to be play "very deep" - whatever that means.

I agree with Drew. Propper hasn't scored because he hasn't got forward enough ( I can only remember him taking about 2, highly speculative, shots for us). This is surely a tactical decision. The key quality Hughton wants in a midfielder at Premier League level is not to get caught the wrong side of the ball. That's why we hardly saw anything of Kayal or Bissouma, Hughton didn't trust their positional discipline. Hughton believes in shape above everything and it kept us up. I can see why the club want to go in a different direction though.

Lifelong Supporter · Jul 2, 2019

chaileyjem said:
He's played as a CM or a DM all his career. This hasn't changed at Brighton.
Like Propper, the reason for him not scoring goals are numerous, its the Premier League, the quality of the opposition, his form, the players getting forward ahead of him, chances created and so on. Are are you saying its all down to the fact , that in your view, because Hughton has told him to be play "very deep" - whatever that means.
Where do you think Potter will play him ?

I think Potter will play him to his strength as CH did, which is in front of the back 4. Generally speaking leave the attacking bit to the more talented forward players !!!!!

chaileyjem · Jul 2, 2019

blue-shifted said:
I agree with Drew. Propper hasn't scored because he hasn't got forward enough ( I can only remember him taking about 2, highly speculative, shots for us). This is surely a tactical decision. The key quality Hughton wants in a midfielder at Premier League level is not to get caught the wrong side of the ball. That's why we hardly saw anything of Kayal or Bissouma, Hughton didn't trust their positional discipline. Hughton believes in shape above everything and it kept us up. I can see why the club want to go in a different direction though.

Bissouma made 28 appearances last season. Hughton didn't do a very good job of keeping him from us.
As for whether Potter or anyone could turn Stephens and Propper into prolific goalscorers in the Premier League purely by a change of tactics - well we'll see.

schmunk · Jul 2, 2019

Meanwhile Rafa follows the dismal path of many a faded star by agreeing a mega pay deal in China:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48831519

Good on Hughton for (so far!) not doing this.

DumLum · Jul 2, 2019

schmunk said:
Meanwhile Rafa follows the dismal path of many a faded star by agreeing a mega pay deal in China:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48831519

Good on Hughton for (so far!) not doing this.

Has a Chinese club made an offer with a huge amount of cash then?

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