Trump

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jan 8, 2021

GT49er said:
What twaddle. Support for Trump on NSC? Oh yeh - masses of it ............

There are a few extreme Brexit haters whose prejudices lead them to fantasise that somehow in their bigotted view Brexiteers are Trump supporters too - it probably reinforces and justifies in their own minds their entitled and arrogant contempt for people who don't agree with them. There is no comparison between the march for Brexit and Wednesday's disgusting events - one was a peaceful legitimate political rally; unlike Wednesday's it was not trying to overturn a democratic outcome it didn't like by use of force.

The only comparison between the Brexit process and Wednesday's Trump rally was baying mobs outside Parliament, marching up and down waving EU flags and trying to overturn a democratic outcome they didn't like by shouting at it. Anti-democratic protests in both cases. Fortunately the remainers' baying mob seeking to overturn democracy was less violent and aggressive than the loons in America, and didn't get people killed, although with Sir Bob Geldof in their midst they may well have been more potty-mouthed!

It think he meant people like Das Reich and the Biggums (and thankfully there are few other people like these unique weirdos on NSC). And in the real world, we als have the hero of Brexit, media darling and founder of a different new party every year, Farrage.

You sound as irritated, having your pro-Brexit position conflated with Trump support, as I do when my support for blm and opposition to Boris are conflated with extreme left wing ideology, BLM, Corbyn etc.

There is a Venn diagram for everything, and there is some overlap between Trump support and being pro-Brexit (and on NSC there are some noisy fools in this area of overlap, as mentioned), whereas (and this was surely what was in the mind of the person to whom you reply) I doubt any of us have ever encountered anyone who supports Starmer and Trump, or remain and Trump. All the british Trump supporters, I'll wager, are pro Brexit. But you are right, only a proportion of Brexitters support Trump.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jan 8, 2021

Klaas said:
Knew as soon as I posted that you'd be all over it. It would help if you engaged with what I actually wrote though.

I didn't say there was 'masses' of support for Trump on nsc. In fact I've said in the past that the reason this stays out of the BP is because broadly we all agree, from left to right, on him. However, those who do support Trump, or who indulge in whataboutery are all prolific brexit supporters on here.*
I was talking about a new breed of conservatives, that has seemingly taken over the Republican party in the states and can be seen making inroads here, and seems to be prevalent amongst some brexit supporters.* As for the march for Brexit, (I should have said Brexit Betrayal march which was what I was thinking of), I said it showed how they overlapped. Trump flags were flown, neo-nazis were present, the same rhetoric was used. Not to mention some of the main architects of Brexit being such big Trump fans!* There are many connections.

I agree with you. That Venn diagram thing.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jan 8, 2021

Neville's Breakfast said:
Unfortunately it is posters such as yourself that are used to discredit leaving the EU. Every time you come on here and defend the indefensible (eg Trump) it gives further opportunity for people to make wild generalizations about the motives of millions of people in voting to leave the EU. Perhaps you don’t realize that you are a pawn of the extreme element of the Remain side, but that is what you are. Thankfully I think the majority of us (maybe not on NSC) want to find common ground and respect each other’s opinions.

Quite.

Early on in the debate I was open to considering leaving the EU. One of my best pals was very keen to leave. It was the shrill and racist poppycock from the likes of Farrage, the 'campaign to save the good old British pound' and all the other laughable nonsense that made me question the agenda of the strongly anti EU contingent. I suspect that if the media had not courted the likes of Farrage and the ERG we could have managed the whole business differently. Instead, the good reasons to leave the EU (and I am still assuming there are some, albeit I can't name one) have been lost in a sea of nonsense: preventing immigration from outside the EU (we always could) etc (I won't bore people with the list fake benefits); something about fishing (?). I could never vote to change a stable arrangement by leaping into the unknown for (still) undefined benefits. You don't divorce the missus just because her gym night clashes with the footy and you can't decide who should look after the nipper while the other is out.

But if the likes of Das Reich, Farrage and the other nobbers had shut up for a moment and allowed the rational analysis to be heard I might have been persuaded. Who knows?

As it happens my pro-Brexit pal is now deeply apprehensive and considers the gains he thought we might make not worth the disruption. Only time will tell.

But the fact remains, if sensible people (on both sides of the Brexit argument) didn't have to waste time dealing with racists and morons, we could have negociated a decent Brexit years ago (that, or realised it wasn't worth the bother).

Anyway, you're right :shrug:

Neville's Breakfast · Jan 8, 2021

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
It think he meant people like Das Reich and the Biggums (and thankfully there are few other people like these unique weirdos on NSC). And in the real world, we als have the hero of Brexit, media darling and founder of a different new party every year, Farrage.

You sound as irritated, having your pro-Brexit position conflated with Trump support, as I do when my support for blm and opposition to Boris are conflated with extreme left wing ideology, BLM, Corbyn etc.

There is a Venn diagram for everything, and there is some overlap between Trump support and being pro-Brexit (and on NSC there are some noisy fools in this area of overlap, as mentioned), whereas (and this was surely what was in the mind of the person to whom you reply) I doubt any of us have ever encountered anyone who supports Starmer and Trump, or remain and Trump. All the british Trump supporters, I'll wager, are pro Brexit. But you are right, only a proportion of Brexitters support Trump.

I don’t think anyone would deny the truth in what you say. But you have to think about the reasons for the same characters to keep saying it. They are trying to discredit an opinion about Brexit through dog whistling about Trump. I don’t care about the views of the leadership of the Leave campaign. Completely uninterested. I made my own mind up before many of these characters even got into politics. You are right to draw parallels with people who dog whistle about the leadership of BLM. It’s the flip side of the same coin.

aolstudios · Jan 8, 2021

aolstudios · Jan 8, 2021

Pretty pink fairy said:
Morning officer
Regards
DF

Morning, chicken little keyboard warrior

Greg Bobkin · Jan 8, 2021

Juan Albion said:
More like he was presented with a script and told to read it or they would 25th him. No way he wrote that. He sure as heck didn't mean a word of it.

This.

I can't actually believe he read it out. I wonder who actually managed to persuade him to do it?

KeithDublin · Jan 8, 2021

Neville's Breakfast said:
If in doubt make up some false facts. You are more like Trump than you realise

You responded to me with a very similar line. The similarities between Brexit and Trump not only comes from the fact that both movements managed to attract disenfranchised voters, in the US the Midwest rust belt ex steel mill/ coal miners etc. In the UK, the old industrial north. Both movements attracted these voters (in part) on a combination of lies and the demonization of immigrants.

Both movements also used populism. Johnson and Farage here with their men of the people thing and Trump in the US. Both also either embraced or turned a blind eye to the far right supporting them. Lots of nazis dressed up as UKippers.

Like it or not there any many parallels between the two.

Blue Valkyrie · Jan 8, 2021

[tweet]1347414676183908353[/tweet]

marlowe · Jan 8, 2021

clapham_gull said:
[tweet]1347335902339747842[/tweet]

I'm intrigued by the video/audio editing of Trump's "concession speech".

There is clearly a spliced in segment at 1.28 after he says, "now Congress has certified the results...". There is then a camera angle cut, but you can also hear that it is also an audio cut as the continuation of his sentence doesn't flow from the original audio when he says, "....a new administration will be inaugurated on January 20th......etc etc". The rest of that spliced in clip he goes on about "ensuring a smooth and orderly transition of power" and achieving "healing and reconciliation". It then reverts back to the original video/audio at 1.41.

Trump would certainly have struggled saying those words between 1.28 and 1.41. I wonder if they were inserted as an after thought, or whether it was because that part had to be redone because Trump struggled keeping to that part of the script.

He probably didn't come across "sincere" enough in the original take or couldn't resist revealing what he really thought about the words he was being forced to say.

raymondo · Jan 8, 2021

Greg Bobkin said:
This.

I can't actually believe he read it out. I wonder who actually managed to persuade him to do it?

I too was surprised he read it: I still can't figure out whether Trump was toying with the idea of being 25thd (so he could be a martyr, and embolden his supporters to more violent acts), or whether he decided that...if he does want to run again in 4 years (heaven help the world) that being 25thd wouldn't be such a good idea afterall. I doubt, sadly, that he thought he should read it because he (and Giuliani) were culpable in inciting violence that resulted in 5 deaths, and perhaps that was enough.

herecomesaregular · Jan 8, 2021

marlowe said:
I'm intrigued by the video/audio editing of Trump's "concession speech".

There is clearly a spliced in segment at 1.28 after he says, "now Congress has certified the results...". There is then a camera angle cut, but you can also hear that it is also an audio cut as the continuation of his sentence doesn't flow from the original audio when he says, "....a new administration will be inaugurated on January 20th......etc etc". The rest of that spliced in clip he goes on about "ensuring a smooth and orderly transition of power" and achieving "healing and reconciliation". It then reverts back to the original video/audio at 1.41.

Trump would certainly have struggled saying those words between 1.28 and 1.41. I wonder if they were inserted as an after thought, or whether it was because that part had to be redone because Trump struggled keeping to that part of the script.

He probably didn't come across "sincere" enough in the original take or couldn't resist revealing what he really thought about the words he was being forced to say.

What ya talkin' about it's seemlessly cut! :lolol:

Klaas · Jan 8, 2021

Neville's Breakfast said:
When you try to tar supporters of Brexit with the same brush as Trump supporters in the US. You have a whole thread here of pretty much uniform anti Trump sentiment and yet you try to sew division by seeking to ridicule those with whom you disagree about another issue. Muddying the waters, a typical Trump like approach to debate. As pointed out elsewhere the irony of your attitude is that it is your side that refused to accept a democratic outcome and created division in this country.

Well I was going for a slightly more nuanced view than tarring 'supporters of Brexit with the same brush as Trump supporters' don't you think? That's why I used phrases like, 'a new kind of conservative', 'It’s a weird alliance', 'Lots of Brexit supporters embrace it', 'they overlap', 'the main whataboutists, apologists and outright fans of Trump'.
Even referred to 'regular' brexit voters.

But I guess it's got to be black and white for you, I drew a parallel with a section of brexit voters who are 'sympathetic to a Trumpian world view' (didn't even call them Trump supporters did I?) and that's it, I think Brexit = Trump.

Your right about the uniform anti Trump flavour of this thread, I've said the same myself in the past. I just pointed out that the only times people have tried whataboutery, shitposted or even occasionally coming out in support for Trump on this thread, they've all been prominent NSC brexity types.

:thumbsup:

Greg Bobkin · Jan 8, 2021

marlowe said:
I'm intrigued by the video/audio editing of Trump's "concession speech".

There is clearly a spliced in segment at 1.28 after he says, "now Congress has certified the results...". There is then a camera angle cut, but you can also hear that it is also an audio cut as the continuation of his sentence doesn't flow from the original audio when he says, "....a new administration will be inaugurated on January 20th......etc etc". The rest of that spliced in clip he goes on about "ensuring a smooth and orderly transition of power" and achieving "healing and reconciliation". It then reverts back to the original video/audio at 1.41.

Trump would certainly have struggled saying those words between 1.28 and 1.41. I wonder if they were inserted as an after thought, or whether it was because that part had to be redone because Trump struggled keeping to that part of the script.

He probably didn't come across "sincere" enough in the original take or couldn't resist revealing what he really thought about the words he was being forced to say.

I thought it was odd when I saw the switch of camera angle. I love the way he says his focus NOW is on the transition of power. I mean, with under two weeks to go, that's gonna get a lot done. Clearly BS.

Klaas · Jan 8, 2021

Neville's Breakfast said:
Unfortunately it is posters such as yourself that are used to discredit leaving the EU. Every time you come on here and defend the indefensible (eg Trump) it gives further opportunity for people to make wild generalizations about the motives of millions of people in voting to leave the EU. Perhaps you don’t realize that you are a pawn of the extreme element of the Remain side, but that is what you are. Thankfully I think the majority of us (maybe not on NSC) want to find common ground and respect each other’s opinions.

This is just utter nonsense. You and many others simply will not own this element of the Brexit vote.

Greg Bobkin · Jan 8, 2021

raymondo said:
I too was surprised he read it: I still can't figure out whether Trump was toying with the idea of being 25thd (so he could be a martyr, and embolden his supporters to more violent acts), or whether he decided that...if he does want to run again in 4 years (heaven help the world) that being 25thd wouldn't be such a good idea afterall. I doubt, sadly, that he thought he should read it because he (and Giuliani) were culpable in inciting violence that resulted in 5 deaths, and perhaps that was enough.

There is close to no chance of him running in '24. Why would he? He's got the title, proved he had little interest in actually doing the work and will be having too much fun sniping from the sidelines about how he would've done things so much better.

The GOP would've moved on by then. Remember this is the guy responsible for losing them the House and now the Senate as well as the Presidency. I'm 50/50 on whether one of his kids might give it a go –*all depends how the legal things (if any) play out over the next few months and years. Lindsay Graham, Pence or Cruz are more likely to be the frontrunners along with some of the people who have escaped the administration in recent months. Romney as an outside chance, maybe?

Fignon's Ponytail · Jan 8, 2021

"Don" was right! :laugh:

(see video below)

GT49er · Jan 8, 2021

Neville's Breakfast said:
When you try to tar supporters of Brexit with the same brush as Trump supporters in the US. You have a whole thread here of pretty much uniform anti Trump sentiment and yet you try to sew division by seeking to ridicule those with whom you disagree about another issue. Muddying the waters, a typical Trump like approach to debate. As pointed out elsewhere the irony of your attitude is that it is your side that refused to accept a democratic outcome and created division in this country.

Spot on. His denials that he's not tarring a lot of people with the same brush are really quite Trumpian.

Fignon's Ponytail · Jan 8, 2021

Genius [tweet]1346935756128804868[/tweet]

Klaas · Jan 8, 2021

GT49er said:
Spot on. His denials that he's not tarring a lot of people with the same brush are really quite Trumpian.

Talk me through your thinking there.

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