[Politics] Brexit

clapham_gull · Sep 6, 2019

Baldseagull said:
Effectively saying, to be loyal to his brother would be against the national interest.

Not much of a surprise, since he resigned under May. He is a committed remainer / wants a second referendum.

To me the story of the day (which the resignation has overshadowed) was our PM saying he would rather "die in a ditch" than ask for an extension.

That sends out an extraordinary message to extreme far right nationalists.

Boris is becoming more unhinged by the day and I can't see him mentally or physically handling an election.

GT49er · Sep 6, 2019

joydivisionovengloves said:
If this was 1916.

Well it isn't. Hasn't been for a long time.

Do keep up ...............................

nickjhs · Sep 6, 2019

joydivisionovengloves said:
If this was 1916, Johnson, Rees-Mogg and their chums would be the ones sending us and our sons off to die in the trenches.

How can anyone fall for their over grown sense of entitlement and callous disregard for anyone but their own kind ?

What is the relevance of 1916? Aside from your post, there was a vote to leave, so if you are going to leave there is no point having a worse deal than when the country was part of the EC. From what I can understand this is the case with the proposal put forward by May. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to remove the only bargaining chip you have when trying to change this deal. I was shocked and disappointed when the UK voted to leave, but if you are going to negotiate good terms you need to have all the tools at your disposal be it a surgeons scapel or a wrecking ball. It makes absolutely no sense to castrate yourself prior to negotiations

Stat Brother · Sep 6, 2019

birthofanorange said:
Pasta, you really do flatter to deceive, by dressing up what turns out to be basic Brexiteer bollox in reasonably eloquent frippery.
You're basically just The Fairy in drag.

He is funny.

When presented with one issue that was bought to the table, petrol.
30 seconds of internetting resulting in 'oh shit this is bad' - as you'd expect after Farridge said petrol isn't an issue.

Pasta repeats the question.
When pressed again flim-flams and that's it.

It was seemingly physically impossible for him to say '0% tariff on imports but 4.7% tariffs on exports is very bad for the UK refining industry'.

He might as well have just written "Leave Means Leaves".

pastafarian · Sep 6, 2019

Stat Brother said:
He is funny.

When presented with one issue that was bought to the table, petrol.
30 seconds of internetting resulting in 'oh shit this is bad' - as you'd expect after Farridge said petrol isn't an issue.

Pasta repeats the question.
When pressed again flim-flams and that's it.

It was seemingly physically impossible for him to say '0% tariff on imports but 4.7% tariffs on exports is very bad for the UK refining industry'.

He might as well have just written "Leave Means Leaves".

Starting to wonder if some of you actually read what is being written even by yourselves or just jump in
you asked me a question as if you didn’t understand the figures.

Stat Brother said:
[MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION] can I have your input on this please.

Stat Brother said:
that is way way above my comfort level.

I said what the figures meant

You followed up with a question specifically asking what the plus side is

Stat Brother said:
I'm more curious as to your opinion on such a deal, specifically if there's a plus side to such an arrangement.
.

I said the plus side is lower import tariffs is cheaper for the consumer.
Thought it was obvious If the fuel that was previously imported from outside the EU at 4.7% is now imported at 0% it is cheaper for the importer. Fuel that was previously imported at 0% from inside the EU remains at 0%. Its not rocket science.

:shrug:

It goes without saying, if the tariffs go up for the exporter from 0% to 4.7% its worse for the exporter. Does it really need laying out for you
Some are importers and exporters some are just one, so swings and roundabouts too. But markets adjust to opportunity
But tell me, If you said to the average consumer here your fuel and fuel related bills might be cheaper with lower import tariffs but the downside is the big fuel companies would take a hit on their massive profits from their export division, I wonder what the average consumer fed up with high fuel bills will do first……snigger or snigger?

Happy Exile · Sep 6, 2019

pastafarian said:
But tell me, If you said to the average consumer here your fuel and fuel related bills might be cheaper with lower import tariffs but the downside is the big fuel companies would take a hit on their massive profits from their export division, I wonder what the average consumer fed up with high fuel bills will do first……snigger or snigger?

I'm an average consumer fed up with high fuel bills and I won't snigger, I'll just sigh heavily and wait for the increased costs to be passed onto me in my bills and hope my company pension fund is invested in the fuel company so I at least get some benefit.

pastafarian · Sep 6, 2019

Happy Exile said:
I'm an average consumer fed up with high fuel bills and I won't snigger, I'll just sigh heavily and wait for the increased costs to be passed onto me in my bills and hope my company pension fund is invested in the fuel company so I at least get some benefit.

Imagine my surprise at the big fuel companies jumping at any opportunity to put prices up

WATFORD zero · Sep 6, 2019

I see that Labour and the SNP have made a deal not to back the GE to take place until after October 31st.

I do love a slow roast :lolol:

cjd · Sep 6, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
I see that Labour and the SNP have made a deal not to back the GE to take place until after October 31st.

I do love a slow roast

So the only thing left to know now, is....will Boris die in the ditch....or before he topples into the ditch ?

No doubt all will be revealed.....

or could he be telling porkies.....again.

Gwylan · Sep 6, 2019

cjd said:
So the only thing left to know now, is....will Boris die in the ditch....or before he topples into the ditch ?

No doubt all will be revealed.....

or could he be telling porkies.....again.

Is the ditch next to bulldozer that he was going to lie in front of? Perhaps the bulldozer could just shunt him into it

Lever · Sep 6, 2019

Gwylan said:
Is the ditch next to bulldozer that he was going to lie in front of? Perhaps the bulldozer could just shunt him into it

... you beat me to it!

ManOfSussex · Sep 6, 2019

Assuming the election motion is allowed back on Monday, I can't see Johnson winning it.
I can't see Johnson trying to bring a bill for an election as an alternative, as it's subject to amendments and Lords scrutiny, so control of the date is lost.
I can't see him bringing a motion of no confidence in his own Government because of how it would look.
Assuming prorogation goes ahead, along with the conferences, I can't see come October how his Queens Speech passes, so we're then into no confidence territory and a subsequent election in November. That still leaves the issue of no deal to tidy up. What does he do?

1. Go cap in hand, do what parliament have said and fight the election the month after?
2. Try and resurrect the withdrawal agreement?
3. Try and dig in, not appoint a UK commissioner in the hope The EU expel us as a result and trash The UK's international reputation even further?
4. As he'd rather die in a ditch, could he resign as PM pending an election in the hope that Corbyn is the one to get the extension from The EU and throw that at him in the subsequent election?
5. Just Say - Ra, ra, ra, tally ho, almost scored a goal in the wall game at Eton once, it's all tremendous jolly good fun what-what-what, blah-blah-blah, our own free trade deals with Nyasaland, blah-blah-blah, they all look the same, Jeremy Corbyn is an oik who ought to know his place, blah-blah-blah, negotiations with our EU chums, tremendous etc - basically he hasn't a clue.
6. Or something else?

At the moment I'm thinking he'll just do No.5.

pb21 · Sep 6, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
Assuming the election motion is allowed back on Monday, I can't see Johnson winning it.
I can't see Johnson trying to bring a bill for an election as an alternative, as it's subject to amendments and Lords scrutiny, so control of the date is lost.
I can't see him bringing a motion of no confidence in his own Government because of how it would look.
Assuming prorogation goes ahead, along with the conferences, I can't see come October how his Queens Speech passes, so we're then into no confidence territory and a subsequent election in November. That still leaves the issue of no deal to tidy up. What does he do?

1. Go cap in hand, do what parliament have said and fight the election the month after?
2. Try and resurrect the withdrawal agreement?
3. Try and dig in, not appoint a UK commissioner in the hope The EU expel us as a result and trash The UK's international reputation even further?
4. As he'd rather die in a ditch, could he resign as PM pending an election in the hope that Corbyn is the one to get the extension from The EU and throw that at him in the subsequent election?
5. Just Say - Ra, ra, ra, tally ho, almost scored a goal in the wall game at Eton once, it's all tremendous jolly good fun what-what-what, blah-blah-blah, our own free trade deals with Nyasaland, blah-blah-blah, they all look the same, Jeremy Corbyn is an oik who ought to know his place, blah-blah-blah, negotiations with our EU chums, tremendous etc - basically he hasn't a clue.
6. Or something else?

At the moment I'm thinking he'll just do No.5.

As I understand it the WA (as revised following talks with Labour) is already resurrected and back on the agenda following an amendment to the Bill to seek an extension.

Presumably this will be voted on again, before 14th/17th October?

Nobby · Sep 6, 2019

pastafarian said:
Starting to wonder if some of you actually read what is being written even by yourselves or just jump in
you asked me a question as if you didn’t understand the figures.

I said what the figures meant

You followed up with a question specifically asking what the plus side is

I said the plus side is lower import tariffs is cheaper for the consumer.
Thought it was obvious If the fuel that was previously imported from outside the EU at 4.7% is now imported at 0% it is cheaper for the importer. Fuel that was previously imported at 0% from inside the EU remains at 0%. Its not rocket science.

It goes without saying, if the tariffs go up for the exporter from 0% to 4.7% its worse for the exporter. Does it really need laying out for you
Some are importers and exporters some are just one, so swings and roundabouts too. But markets adjust to opportunity
But tell me, If you said to the average consumer here your fuel and fuel related bills might be cheaper with lower import tariffs but the downside is the big fuel companies would take a hit on their massive profits from their export division, I wonder what the average consumer fed up with high fuel bills will do first……snigger or snigger?

Could you just explain how this cheaper fuel is physically going to get into this country following a no deal

Thanks

Eeyore · Sep 6, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
Assuming the election motion is allowed back on Monday, I can't see Johnson winning it.
I can't see Johnson trying to bring a bill for an election as an alternative, as it's subject to amendments and Lords scrutiny, so control of the date is lost.
I can't see him bringing a motion of no confidence in his own Government because of how it would look.
Assuming prorogation goes ahead, along with the conferences, I can't see come October how his Queens Speech passes, so we're then into no confidence territory and a subsequent election in November. That still leaves the issue of no deal to tidy up. What does he do?

1. Go cap in hand, do what parliament have said and fight the election the month after?
2. Try and resurrect the withdrawal agreement?
3. Try and dig in, not appoint a UK commissioner in the hope The EU expel us as a result and trash The UK's international reputation even further?
4. As he'd rather die in a ditch, could he resign as PM pending an election in the hope that Corbyn is the one to get the extension from The EU and throw that at him in the subsequent election?
5. Just Say - Ra, ra, ra, tally ho, almost scored a goal in the wall game at Eton once, it's all tremendous jolly good fun what-what-what, blah-blah-blah, our own free trade deals with Nyasaland, blah-blah-blah, they all look the same, Jeremy Corbyn is an oik who ought to know his place, blah-blah-blah, negotiations with our EU chums, tremendous etc - basically he hasn't a clue.
6. Or something else?

At the moment I'm thinking he'll just do No.5.

Maybe watch out for attempts at number 2 in some quarters.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 6, 2019

Baldseagull said:
Effectively saying, to be loyal to his brother would be against the national interest.

Their sister has always been pro Europe. Many people thought De Piffle would come out for Remain but he flip flopped right ar the last minute in 2016, which was strange as he was known to like Free Movement.
I suspect Bannon & Cummings got to him with the money.
As he is so weak & cowardly, it won't take much to tip him over the edge.

ManOfSussex · Sep 6, 2019

pb21 said:
As I understand it the WA (as revised following talks with Labour) is already resurrected and back on the agenda following an amendment to the Bill to seek an extension.

Presumably this will be voted on again, before 14th/17th October?

Brighton Lines said:
Maybe watch out for attempts at number 2 in some quarters.

There's cloak and daggers going on in regards to this, but as he's said 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander', would he really risk expelling circa 60+ ERG die hards who've said they won't vote for the withdrawal agreement, particularly with Farage and The Brexit Party about to fully mobilise in the subsequent election? That's the problem he's got with it. Any 'changes' will be merely cosmetic.

pb21 · Sep 6, 2019

Gwylan said:
Is the ditch next to bulldozer that he was going to lie in front of? Perhaps the bulldozer could just shunt him into it

And like the bulldozer he was lying about then does anyone believe him, on any level, when he says he would rather be dead in a ditch.

And as for the previous bulldozer lie, he didn't even mean this metaphorically/politically, as he ran away when the time came for him to politically lie in front of the bulldozer.

Blue Valkyrie · Sep 6, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
Assuming the election motion is allowed back on Monday, I can't see Johnson winning it.
I can't see Johnson trying to bring a bill for an election as an alternative, as it's subject to amendments and Lords scrutiny, so control of the date is lost.
I can't see him bringing a motion of no confidence in his own Government because of how it would look.
Assuming prorogation goes ahead, along with the conferences, I can't see come October how his Queens Speech passes, so we're then into no confidence territory and a subsequent election in November. That still leaves the issue of no deal to tidy up. What does he do?

1. Go cap in hand, do what parliament have said and fight the election the month after?
2. Try and resurrect the withdrawal agreement?
3. Try and dig in, not appoint a UK commissioner in the hope The EU expel us as a result and trash The UK's international reputation even further?
4. As he'd rather die in a ditch, could he resign as PM pending an election in the hope that Corbyn is the one to get the extension from The EU and throw that at him in the subsequent election?
5. Just Say - Ra, ra, ra, tally ho, almost scored a goal in the wall game at Eton once, it's all tremendous jolly good fun what-what-what, blah-blah-blah, our own free trade deals with Nyasaland, blah-blah-blah, they all look the same, Jeremy Corbyn is an oik who ought to know his place, blah-blah-blah, negotiations with our EU chums, tremendous etc - basically he hasn't a clue.
6. Or something else?

At the moment I'm thinking he'll just do No.5.

If the Queen's Speech is defeated it counts as a no confidence vote - but in this case Corbyn gets 14 days to form a Government. If not it'll be an election.

I assume Corbyn would form a Government, get the extension, and then lose a further confidence vote leading to an election.

Johnson, of course, does (5), above.

Gwylan · Sep 6, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
Assuming the election motion is allowed back on Monday, I can't see Johnson winning it.
I can't see Johnson trying to bring a bill for an election as an alternative, as it's subject to amendments and Lords scrutiny, so control of the date is lost.
I can't see him bringing a motion of no confidence in his own Government because of how it would look.
Assuming prorogation goes ahead, along with the conferences, I can't see come October how his Queens Speech passes, so we're then into no confidence territory and a subsequent election in November. That still leaves the issue of no deal to tidy up. What does he do?

1. Go cap in hand, do what parliament have said and fight the election the month after?
2. Try and resurrect the withdrawal agreement?
3. Try and dig in, not appoint a UK commissioner in the hope The EU expel us as a result and trash The UK's international reputation even further?
4. As he'd rather die in a ditch, could he resign as PM pending an election in the hope that Corbyn is the one to get the extension from The EU and throw that at him in the subsequent election?
5. Just Say - Ra, ra, ra, tally ho, almost scored a goal in the wall game at Eton once, it's all tremendous jolly good fun what-what-what, blah-blah-blah, our own free trade deals with Nyasaland, blah-blah-blah, they all look the same, Jeremy Corbyn is an oik who ought to know his place, blah-blah-blah, negotiations with our EU chums, tremendous etc - basically he hasn't a clue.
6. Or something else?

At the moment I'm thinking he'll just do No.5.

There was talk on Tuesday (not sure how serious it was) that if Johnson refused to go to the EU, defying the law, then Bercow would go in his place. I'm not sure that, if this were the case, that Johnson could continue to be PM but what happens after that, who knows?

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