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Poor old Rangers



S

severnside gull

Well-known member
May 16, 2007
24,540
By the seaside in West Somerset
brighton bluenose said:
In other words you haven't got a clue..............!!
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I have a very real and detailed clue. If you like I could give chapter and verse on Rangers and Pompey. However given your clear ignorance on the issue I will save myself the effort and suggest you look up the old threads on both clubs using the search function and read my (sadly lengthy) contributions there
 




ditchy

ditchy

a man with a sound track record as a source of qua
Jul 8, 2003
5,209
brighton
El Presidente said:
I think the sun caused the problem, most of the five foot five fans there could get sunburn from a holiday brochure!


The football was appalling from both sides.

I was working on TV in Manchester the morning after the final and there was a large grass area outside the studio that was littered with dozens of Bluenoses fast asleep clutching cans of Tennants.
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Scottish comfort blanket !!
 


B

brighton bluenose

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2006
1,396
Nicollet & 66th
severnside gull said:
I have a very real and detailed clue. If you like I could give chapter and verse on Rangers and Pompey. However given your clear ignorance on the issue I will save myself the effort and suggest you look up the old threads on both clubs using the search function and read my (sadly lengthy) contributions there
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Pathetic! Please clarify about those alleged 'illegal payments'?!
 




P

Postman Pat

Well-known member
Jul 24, 2007
6,971
Coldean
Simster said:
Are you saying Rangers didn't do anything wrong? I was under the impression they were guilty of tax fraud on a fairly hefty scale over a number of years. ???
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No, it got overturned in 2012 and upheld in 2014 - they never should have been liquidated - for this anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-28231598

HM Revenue and Customs has lost its appeal over Rangers' use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) - the so-called "Big Tax Case".

Upper tier tribunal judge Lord Doherty dismissed the appeal against a first-tier tax tribunal decision but referred several issues back to the panel.

The tax authority had argued that payments made to players and other employees should be taxable.

The Murray Group, which formerly owned Rangers, argued they were loans.

The first-tier tribunal (FTT) had issued a 2-1 majority verdict in November 2012 which favoured, in principle, the Murray Group and ordered that HMRC's £46.2m demands, about three-quarters of which referred to the liquidated club, be "reduced substantially".

The upper-tier appeal has largely upheld that verdict but some payments will be re-examined by the original tribunal, including termination and "guaranteed bonus" payments.

However, the Murray Group appeared to secure an additional victory relating to payments made to several people including former Ibrox chairman Sir David Murray, which it argued were not special cases.
 






S

severnside gull

Well-known member
May 16, 2007
24,540
By the seaside in West Somerset
E
Postman Pat said:
No, it got overturned in 2012 and upheld in 2014 - they never should have been liquidated - for this anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-28231598

HM Revenue and Customs has lost its appeal over Rangers' use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) - the so-called "Big Tax Case".

Upper tier tribunal judge Lord Doherty dismissed the appeal against a first-tier tax tribunal decision but referred several issues back to the panel.

The tax authority had argued that payments made to players and other employees should be taxable.

The Murray Group, which formerly owned Rangers, argued they were loans.

The first-tier tribunal (FTT) had issued a 2-1 majority verdict in November 2012 which favoured, in principle, the Murray Group and ordered that HMRC's £46.2m demands, about three-quarters of which referred to the liquidated club, be "reduced substantially".

The upper-tier appeal has largely upheld that verdict but some payments will be re-examined by the original tribunal, including termination and "guaranteed bonus" payments.

However, the Murray Group appeared to secure an additional victory relating to payments made to several people including former Ibrox chairman Sir David Murray, which it argued were not special cases.
Click to expand...

Notwithstanding which the payments contravened the rules of the SFA (and for that matter the rules of every FIFA/UEFA -associated governing body). Worthy of note is that they were penalised by their peers (rather than being a punishment imposed by an overseeing body). If their fellow clubs punished them at significant (lost revenue) cost to themselves, it is a massively damning indictment
 






atfc village

atfc village

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2013
5,019
Lower Bourne .Farnham
brighton bluenose said:
Ha ha ha what a cretinous sectarian comment! That you are please with the result because you are an Irish Catholic rather than a Celtc supporter rather says it all!!!

As for the red sock bulsh!t that is up there with all sorts of other myths that the tims like to perpetuate like banning Peperami at Ibrox because it was in a green wrapper or banning Eggs Benedict in the restaurants - truly hilarious!!!
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No but they did ban an inflatable Crocodile and Pope in a game v Motherwell in the late 80's:lolol::lolol:
 








N

NooBHA

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2015
8,584
Postman Pat said:
No, it got overturned in 2012 and upheld in 2014 - they never should have been liquidated - for this anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-28231598

HM Revenue and Customs has lost its appeal over Rangers' use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) - the so-called "Big Tax Case".


Upper tier tribunal judge Lord Doherty dismissed the appeal against a first-tier tax tribunal decision but referred several issues back to the panel.

The tax authority had argued that payments made to players and other employees should be taxable.

The Murray Group, which formerly owned Rangers, argued they were loans.

The first-tier tribunal (FTT) had issued a 2-1 majority verdict in November 2012 which favoured, in principle, the Murray Group and ordered that HMRC's £46.2m demands, about three-quarters of which referred to the liquidated club, be "reduced substantially".

The upper-tier appeal has largely upheld that verdict but some payments will be re-examined by the original tribunal, including termination and "guaranteed bonus" payments.

However, the Murray Group appeared to secure an additional victory relating to payments made to several people including former Ibrox chairman Sir David Murray, which it argued were not special cases.
Click to expand...

Having been an Inspector with HMRC the case against Rangers is overwhelming. The may have set them up to be ''deemed'' as Loans to the players for tax avoidance purposes.

Hovever here is where they fall foul of that...............There was never an expectancy by the club for the players to to pay the moneis back and it was always the intention for them to be written off. After all, can you imagine Rangers saying to the players. Come and play for us for 3 years. You pay 4.5% tax on what we pay you because it is only a staff ''Beneficial Loan'' but here is the catch, you must pay all the money back to us at the end of your contract'' Duuuuhhhhhhhh !

That effectively means that players would be paying to play for Rangers. How many players would actually sign for them under that proviso. None I would have thought.

The Upper Tier were nuts to rule as they did but they could not do anything else but do so because it was a loop in the Tax Legislation, although the courts are supposed to take account of ''intent'' when they make their rulings
 


D

dangull

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2013
5,112
brighton bluenose said:
Ha ha ha what a cretinous sectarian comment! That you are please with the result because you are an Irish Catholic rather than a Celtc supporter rather says it all!!!

As for the red sock bulsh!t that is up there with all sorts of other myths that the tims like to perpetuate like banning Peperami at Ibrox because it was in a green wrapper or banning Eggs Benedict in the restaurants - truly hilarious!!!
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That one maybe a myth, but Rangers for over a 100 years and until recently did have a sectarian policy of not employing any players who were catholic. Celtic at that time were happy to take on players of any faith.
 


B

brighton bluenose

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2006
1,396
Nicollet & 66th
dangull said:
That one maybe a myth, but Rangers for over a 100 years and until recently did have a sectarian policy of not employing any players who were catholic. Celtic at that time were happy to take on players of any faith.
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Don't believe everything you're told Dan - Rangers DID have a few Catholics who played for them over the years though admittedly not many and certainly none as high profile as Mo Johnson in 1989 - and let's not forget the sectarian bile that HE received from the Celtc support when he signed for the Gers!
Bearing in mind that was 25 years ago and that previous 'policy' was of a different era - Rangers have signed many many Catholics since then who have been heroes to the blue faithful!
And one last point - Jock Stein won the European Cup but was never made a director! Why? Because he was a Proddie!! (Allegedly!).
 




B

brighton bluenose

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2006
1,396
Nicollet & 66th
NooBHA said:
Having been an Inspector with HMRC the case against Rangers is overwhelming. The may have set them up to be ''deemed'' as Loans to the players for tax avoidance purposes.

Hovever here is where they fall foul of that...............There was never an expectancy by the club for the players to to pay the moneis back and it was always the intention for them to be written off. After all, can you imagine Rangers saying to the players. Come and play for us for 3 years. You pay 4.5% tax on what we pay you because it is only a staff ''Beneficial Loan'' but here is the catch, you must pay all the money back to us at the end of your contract'' Duuuuhhhhhhhh !

That effectively means that players would be paying to play for Rangers. How many players would actually sign for them under that proviso. None I would have thought.

The Upper Tier were nuts to rule as they did but they could not do anything else but do so because it was a loop in the Tax Legislation, although the courts are supposed to take account of ''intent'' when they make their rulings
Click to expand...

So the EBT's were legal?!
 


D

dangull

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2013
5,112
brighton bluenose said:
Don't believe everything you're told Dan - Rangers DID have a few Catholics who played for them over the years though admittedly not many and certainly none as high profile as Mo Johnson in 1989 - and let's not forget the sectarian bile that HE received from the Celtc support when he signed for the Gers!
Bearing in mind that was 25 years ago and that previous 'policy' was of a different era - Rangers have signed many many Catholics since then who have been heroes to the blue faithful!
And one last point - Jock Stein won the European Cup but was never made a director! Why? Because he was a Proddie!! (Allegedly!).
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Fair points Bluenose. I enjoy the fierce rivalry between the clubs, but the sectarian nonsense should be consigned to history.
 


alfredmizen

alfredmizen

Banned
Mar 11, 2015
6,342
NooBHA said:
Having been an Inspector with HMRC the case against Rangers is overwhelming. The may have set them up to be ''deemed'' as Loans to the players for tax avoidance purposes.

Hovever here is where they fall foul of that...............There was never an expectancy by the club for the players to to pay the moneis back and it was always the intention for them to be written off. After all, can you imagine Rangers saying to the players. Come and play for us for 3 years. You pay 4.5% tax on what we pay you because it is only a staff ''Beneficial Loan'' but here is the catch, you must pay all the money back to us at the end of your contract'' Duuuuhhhhhhhh !

That effectively means that players would be paying to play for Rangers. How many players would actually sign for them under that proviso. None I would have thought.

The Upper Tier were nuts to rule as they did but they could not do anything else but do so because it was a loop in the Tax Legislation, although the courts are supposed to take account of ''intent'' when they make their rulings
Click to expand...
snivelling grass........
 


alfredmizen

alfredmizen

Banned
Mar 11, 2015
6,342
dangull said:
Fair points Bluenose. I enjoy the fierce rivalry between the clubs, but the sectarian nonsense should be consigned to history.
Click to expand...
does that include NOT mentioning the fact you have Irish Catholic parents as a reason for your delight at rangers misfortunes ?
 






B

brighton bluenose

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2006
1,396
Nicollet & 66th
Simster said:
Are you saying Rangers didn't do anything wrong? I was under the impression they were guilty of tax fraud on a fairly hefty scale over a number of years. ???
Click to expand...

Started to type out the whole scenario but suffice to say Rangers were exonerated of cheating the tax man.

However, prior to that exoneration, the dark cloud of the so-called 'Big Tax Case' led Rangers bankers Lloyds to shat themselves - especially as they were trying to re-capitalise after the 2008 crash - and put pressure on Gers chairman David Murray to sell the club to the shyster Craig Whyte for £1- who, as part of the deal, agreed to pay off Rangers very manageable debt of £18m to Lloyds.

Whyte is a businessman with a very shady past and in this instance he conned some £27m from Ticketus, a sports finance firm, to pay off the debt - Ticketus have now won a court case for Whyte to repay them their money due to his deception.

All of this set off a chain of events way too in-depth to go into here which led to Rangers administration and subsequent liquidation - all largely due to Lloyds insistence on repaying the debt and Whytes fraudulent behaviour. There are a number of people including Whyte, the administrators Duff and Phelps and several other high profile business people being investigated by Police Scotland with regard to their part in Rangers demise and I would be very suprised if jail time isn't served by some of these c~~ts!
 


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