The end of Rangers?

Gritt23 · Jul 4, 2012

Simster said:
I think most of them are more bothered about directing their ire towards Murray and Whyte than feeling ashamed on behalf of their club.

And as for the 75% vote, it seemed to me from reading followfollow.com (before I was banned for expressing an opinon that div 1 should not even be an option - I kid you not) that they are more concerned that Scottish football is seen to cut off its nose to spite its face than any sense of what is right and proper. i.e. they'd rather see the other SPL clubs suffer a massive loss of income and start at the bottom than accept being relegated by just one division and seeing finances relatively unaffected. I'm sure there are plenty of principled people among that 75%, however - followfollow is a crap, bigotted site IMO.

Can't argue with the bigoted bit, as we've seen that from both sides of Glasgow for as long as I've followed football, but I am still encouraged by the scale of "support" for Div 3 football. Even "without sanctions" only 20% voted in favour of Div 1. I just thought that was a pleasant change from the likes of Ken Bates and Leeds supporters who seemed to think that any sort of penalty was some sort of witch hunt.

Silverhatch · Jul 4, 2012

Sky could honour the contract and televise every Rangers game from Div 3 upwards. Still get massive (relatively) viewing figures especially if the Rangers faithful honour their threat not to travel away.

cjd · Jul 4, 2012

Simster said:
I think most of them are more bothered about directing their ire towards Murray and Whyte than feeling ashamed on behalf of their club.

And as for the 75% vote, it seemed to me from reading followfollow.com (before I was banned for expressing an opinon that div 1 should not even be an option - I kid you not) that they are more concerned that Scottish football is seen to cut off its nose to spite its face than any sense of what is right and proper. i.e. they'd rather see the other SPL clubs suffer a massive loss of income and start at the bottom than accept being relegated by just one division and seeing finances relatively unaffected. I'm sure there are plenty of principled people among that 75%, however - followfollow is a crap, bigotted site IMO.

Agree with the above.

The venom they have for all other football teams in Scotland is quite frightening. I think Scottish football is in trouble financially......and the threat of future violence towards opposing football supporters is a very big one.

The response from Rangers fans when the 'apology' from the newco rangers chairman was given to the SPL, was quite astonishing.

The Fifth Column · Jul 4, 2012

It may already have been mentioned in this and other threads but I wonder if any of the Celtic players might now be thinking of transferring elsewhere in the absence of the Old Firm and all the likely negative effects of this whole saga?

Gritt23 · Jul 4, 2012

The Fifth Column said:
It may already have been mentioned in this and other threads but I wonder if any of the Celtic players might now be thinking of transferring elsewhere in the absence of the Old Firm and all the likely negative effects of this whole saga?

I think that could very well happen, and in light of how easily Celtic must be expecting to win the League, they may very well look to accept bids, knowing that either way they should win the League at a canter, and either way they will not be good enough to qualify for the Group Stages of the Champions League.

It only takes Celtic to get that a bit wrong, and for someone to break out of the pack, and you never know, Sky could have an interesting SPL on their hands.

mejonaNO12 aka riskit · Jul 4, 2012

It's amazing just how much this is screwing up other teams. I believe it was St Mirren who claimed on Five Live that, although they won't be the first, they are adament that Rangers dropping to the 3rd division (where a newco should begin) will put them into administration by Christmas. From what I remember them saying, if Rangers were put into the first division a lot of SPL teams could budget on the assumption that they would be back in the SPL in one season.

3 seasons minimum is too long for them financially.

Box of Frogs · Jul 4, 2012

CHAPPERS said:
Maybe Sky could do the right thing and honour the contracts that would be given if Ranges were in the SPL?

I would imagine that the contract was based on there being Rangers and Celtic in the SPL - therefore if one of them are not, the contract gets torn up!

Simster · Jul 4, 2012

mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
It's amazing just how much this is screwing up other teams. I believe it was St Mirren who claimed on Five Live that, although they won't be the first, they are adament that Rangers dropping to the 3rd division (where a newco should begin) will put them into administration by Christmas. From what I remember them saying, if Rangers were put into the first division a lot of SPL teams could budget on the assumption that they would be back in the SPL in one season.

3 seasons minimum is too long for them financially.

If St Mirren (or any other club) have been running themselves so badly that three seasons without Rangers in the top flight is likely to bankrupt them, then I'd suggest they deserve to be in administration. What a shit way of running a club.

Herne Hill Seagull · Jul 4, 2012

Box of Frogs said:
I would imagine that the contract was based on there being Rangers and Celtic in the SPL - therefore if one of them are not, the contract gets torn up!

Surely no FA in their right mind would allow such a clause, however desperate for the money they were? You couldn't possibly leave yourself open to the suggestion that the make-up (in terms of the teams within it) of your top flight was in any way influenced by the TV companies, it would suggest that the very integrity of the sport was for sale.

(Perhaps it is, these days...)

Simster · Jul 4, 2012

Box of Frogs said:
I would imagine that the contract was based on there being Rangers and Celtic in the SPL - therefore if one of them are not, the contract gets torn up!

Possibly true. You have to say, the diehard supporters of literally every other club in Scotland must be wondering this morning what the point is of supporting their own clubs. Contracts have been agreed that literally enshrine their positions within the league as nothing more than cannon fodder for the old firm. It's a sad state of affairs, and Scottish football is turning into a corrupt disgrace.

mejonaNO12 aka riskit · Jul 4, 2012

Simster said:
If St Mirren (or any other club) have been running themselves so badly that three seasons without Rangers in the top flight is likely to bankrupt them, then I'd suggest they deserve to be in administration. What a shit way of running a club.

I think that's slightly unfair. You obviously budget based on your income. The majority of their income is from TV. The TV deal is reliant on Rangers.

When ITV digital collapsed it caused havoc for many clubs. Was that bad management for them?

Simster · Jul 4, 2012

Herne Hill Seagull said:
Surely no FA in their right mind would allow such a clause, however desperate for the money they were? You couldn't possibly leave yourself open to the suggestion that the make-up (in terms of the teams within it) of your top flight was in any way influenced by the TV companies, it would suggest that the very integrity of the sport was for sale.

(Perhaps it is, these days...)

Details:
SPL's Â£80m TV deal with Sky and ESPN kicks expansion into touch | Football | The Guardian

Rangers in crisis: Sky TV threaten to tear up TV deal if Ibrox club is demoted to Division Three - The Daily Record

"SKY TV are poised to tear up their £110million deal to screen Scottish football if Rangers are thrown into the Third Division.

The broadcasting giants agreed their five-year deal with the SPL on the basis of four money-spinning Old Firm clashes a year."

So yes, that TV deal was indeed agreed.

Herne Hill Seagull · Jul 4, 2012

Jesus Christ. You can't get away from the feeling that there are plenty up there who are reaping what they've sewn. Regrettably, other clubs who've tried to do the right thing financially are going to be stung as well.

Simster · Jul 4, 2012

mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
I think that's slightly unfair. You obviously budget based on your income. The majority of their income is from TV. The TV deal is reliant on Rangers.

When ITV digital collapsed it caused havoc for many clubs. Was that bad management for them?

You're probably right, as it was the SPL as a body who negotiated this TV deal. But nevertheless, my real point is that I'm not sure I believe St Mirren would face administration if the renogotiation of the TV contract was the only problem. And would Sky really walk away entirely from that deal? I'm not convinced.

beorhthelm · Jul 4, 2012

mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
...I believe it was St Mirren who claimed on Five Live that, although they won't be the first, they are adament that Rangers dropping to the 3rd division (where a newco should begin) will put them into administration by Christmas.

i read the same this morning, only September. It certainly shows that the situation is complicated.

on the supposed Rangers travelling support, i recall looking up the last few away games... either they dont take any support with them or the locals dont go to games as the attendances would shame L2 clubs.

Dessie · Jul 4, 2012

Simster said:
You're probably right, as it was the SPL as a body who negotiated this TV deal. But nevertheless, my real point is that I'm not sure I believe St Mirren would face administration if the renogotiation of the TV contract was the only problem. And would Sky really walk away entirely from that deal? I'm not convinced.

I don't think they would - it'd be commercial suicide. They receive far more in subscriptions from North of the border than they pay out as it stands. Any organised boycott from Scottish viewers (over 0.5m of them) would hit Uncle Rupert where it hurts most. If Sky's renegotiation of the deal is too punitive, I'd tell them where to stick it and launch SPL TV.

Triggaaar · Jul 4, 2012

Simster said:
Raith director: | Rangers | Sport | STV

Absolutely disgraceful, especially the last bit in the video.

Good for him to stand up and say it. What f***ing wankers there are in the SFA and SPL.

CHAPPERS · Jul 4, 2012

Simster said:
Details:
SPL's Â£80m TV deal with Sky and ESPN kicks expansion into touch | Football | The Guardian

Rangers in crisis: Sky TV threaten to tear up TV deal if Ibrox club is demoted to Division Three - The Daily Record

"SKY TV are poised to tear up their £110million deal to screen Scottish football if Rangers are thrown into the Third Division.

The broadcasting giants agreed their five-year deal with the SPL on the basis of four money-spinning Old Firm clashes a year."

So yes, that TV deal was indeed agreed.

Incredible isn't it. You only have to look at this situation and the situation in the Spanish league (Barca and Real each recieve 100m Euros more per season for TV rights than the next highest (Athletico) and then it diminishes further as you go down the Primera Liga) to see how far the game has gone in selling it's soul.

Triggaaar · Jul 4, 2012

Gritt23 said:
I have a slight problem with this being referred to as being "demoted." The old club, the iold company has gone, it's heading into liquidation. End.

The debate is where this new company that has been created can start in the pyramid. Do they start at the bottom, or are they allowed some special treatment due to the level of support and tv money that will presumably come with them. The debate is really how much we allow money to bend the rules, and morals of teh game.

Agreed.

CHAPPERS said:
Maybe Sky could do the right thing and honour the contracts that would be given if Ranges were in the SPL?

Agreed (although it's not about honouring the contract, but the spirit of it etc)

Simster said:
Possibly true. You have to say, the diehard supporters of literally every other club in Scotland must be wondering this morning what the point is of supporting their own clubs. Contracts have been agreed that literally enshrine their positions within the league as nothing more than cannon fodder for the old firm. It's a sad state of affairs, and Scottish football is turning into a corrupt disgrace.

Agreed.

Simster said:
"SKY TV are poised to tear up their £110million deal to screen Scottish football if Rangers are thrown into the Third Division.

The broadcasting giants agreed their five-year deal with the SPL on the basis of four money-spinning Old Firm clashes a year."

So yes, that TV deal was indeed agreed.

What are the
Well that depends on the wording of the contract. For example, could they not invent games for the old firm to play - the Glasgow cup?

PS - I'm just looking at old league tables. SPL = 12 teams, 38 games each. How does that work?

Gullys Cats · Jul 4, 2012

rangers and Celtic killed the spl years ago and glory hunting

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