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its pretty funny too: im sure the sabbath day is Friday/Saturday, at least thats when the Jews observe it and they know a thing or two about the bible part I.

there are many churches who promote this, and a great many "pastors" who make a good living from "channeling" this ability.

from the desciption (haven't listened to the iplayer), it sounds like Mr Gray is constructing an Aunt Sally description of atheists. theres no problem with myths and rituals, the atheist simply recognises them as that rather than some sort of truth or requirement of life. the main objection is...

i see. so we are given the choice of fertile but dangerous land, or barren but safe? utterly ignores those places that are fertile and safe or barren and dangerous. not so much choice, than luck of birth. Similarly, you seem to think that disease is simply a trial for us to overcome. the...

i think you rather demostrate how gods are created to deal with the enormity and complexity of life. there doesnt have to be anything outside the universe, as by definition it is everything. if gods where to exist they would do so within the universe. you are playing on that free will...

so you propose he is powerless to prevent disasters but can may make some intervention to help. we come back to the original question: seems you still cant offer an answer, although you've done a good job of sidesteping the obvious trap laid. seems you are content with a less than all...

??? you are responsible for the rains failing, or the monsoon destroying a crop, or cattle dieing of a bovine disease, or warlords/factions fighting over a territory? i think from your ivory tower you ignore that such things have always occured. as you say, natural events are just that and...

yes, we might, but apparently without the help of some invisible deity who hasnt seen fit to eradicate famine and disease (indeed, biblical even used them as weapons and punishment). you evade the problem of these factors being present in the first place. thats ok, because i know there has...

We wanted free will? when? was there a vote? did we have an option? invoking free will is a cope out, we often have no control over events around us (see road accidents) and we are not born with it. a child has no free will, it can not have any effect on its surroundings, yet it may suffer...

an interesting defense, denying the terms of the arguement. if there is no evil, then how is God and Jesus "good" in contrast? anyway, i can accept the "experience of life", after all evil is rather a construction of abrahamic religions (and do you see the irony and contradiction of your...

much better that the answer is god just willed himself into existance. where did the self come to be willed into existance... oh! this point of existance is beyond both science and theology. well its been well covered earlier but just for you: if God is all powerfull, all knowing and...

i mock him because he doesnt even understand the basic premises and tenets of the religion he believes in. rather than reading the bible to try and find more contradictions and allegory dressed as truth, he really should pack it in. actually, i will generally mock the religious on the basis...

well, i dont think we'll have much disagreement on that definition. i would only add that those in the cult often dont acknowledge they are.

i know. every so often in such matters you realise this and ask "why am i arguing and not trying to sell the chap something". after all its what the churches have been doing for centuries. scientology started out as a joke to demonstrate this, look where they are now.

oh, in spirit. how do you know he's there then, and hasn't popped out for a coffee or to smite someone?

why ridiculous? if i had God (or someone claiming to be) with me i'd be asking quite a few questions.

so did you ask him yet?

with you now? could you ask him why he lets children suffer and die then.

of course you dont think so, and maybe i should have elaborated. go back and see how you contradict yourself, claiming "God" is independent of religion then cite the bible (a religious text!) to define "God".

you are one confused bunny. :moo: