[Politics] If there were a General Election tomorrow poll

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 17, 2024

lawros left foot said:
You won’t want to hear it HWT, but Labour under Corbyn defeated the Tory Government 41 times in HOC votes.

This makes him the most effective LOTO in our history.

That seems pretty strong to me.

More than happy to hear it.

I don't remember it, though. Does anyone?

I think all this proves is my point - it doesn't matter how 'successful' or 'unsuccessful' a leader of the opposition may be when they are the leader of the opposition - the only game in town is the general election and persuading the electorate to allow you to form a government. The very idea of Corbyn forming a government is the stuff of fantasy.

I rejoined Labour after Corbyn resigned, and disappeared over the horizon, condemning all forms of discrimination (except antisemitism). The most successful leader of the opposition of all time. On a par with being the best football club from Devon in the whole world.

Simster · Apr 17, 2024

pb21 said:
What are the current issues facing our country, as you see them, and how do you think they would be best solved?

There is very little point in quoting @Is it PotG? and expecting a sensible adult response to a political question. The best you'll get is a "like".

Bry Nylon · Apr 17, 2024

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Can you ever remember an opposition that was 'strong'? I can't. You can aftertime it and say that Thatcher and Blair were strong in opposition because they won, but I barely remember anything about them in opposition.

Blair was, in my view, an outstanding Opposition leader, regardless of whether you agree with his politics or his record in office.

He was dynamic, optimistic, compelling, looked like a 'winner' and surrounded himself with an excellent team that systematically rebuilt and re-branded the Party. And in spite of the 'Bambi' nickname, he didn't lack the guts for a political fight in pursuit of his goals. His landslide victory in 1997 was no surprise.

He was the 'charismatic leader' who instinctively understood aspiration, was a natural communicator and had a vision for the country that connected with voters - and critically he had a Shadow Chancellor who played the role of the 'competent but unexciting' managerial type who could be trusted with the drudge of getting up everyday and doing the finances.

Simster · Apr 17, 2024

Rookie said:
It’s a tap in for Labour which is depressing. They have been weak in opposition and can’t see them being any good in power.
That the next government will also have a rubbish opposition shows a worrying state of affairs in politics.
If the liberals or a centralist party could come forward I think they would have a fighting chance because people just want good governance

I tend to agree. Labour have been weak in opposition, but it's not only down to them. The LDs have been dead in the water for a decade, and their leader is tarnished by the post office scandal. Normally my default vote would be for the LDs if they had any sort of fighting chance or even some sort of political clout, but this time I'll do what needs to be done to finally rid us of 14 years of the worst administration we've ever seen. I'll vote for a bang-average uninspiring Labour party. But the reality is that as a centrist, economic pragmatist and a remainer, I'm politically homeless.

Stato · Apr 17, 2024

Ding Dong ! said:
Anyone thinking that Labour are going to be the solution to the current issues facing our country are totally & utterly DELUDED...........Get help !!!

I think it's more that we'll have a government that tries to follow Hippocrates' advice - 'First do no harm.'

The power of nation states is often over estimated in today's world of international capital. Economically they can only scoop a bit around the edge of the lifeboat whilst floating in a vast ocean without paddles. However, we have had a government that has spent a decade quite deliberately punching holes in the bottom with a boathook. None of us are expecting their successors to arrive with a fibreglass shell and an outboard motor. We are all just voting for 'No More Holes!'

Is it PotG? · Apr 17, 2024

Simster said:
There is very little point in quoting @Is it PotG? and expecting a sensible adult response to a political question. The best you'll get is a "like".

Absolutely ridiculous and poorly thought out response.

On a thread like this, people will stick to their guns and say that black is white if it aids their argument. You have your views, I have mine. Oddly I don't feel the need to belittle those with differing ideas and ideals.

Simster · Apr 17, 2024

Official Old Man said:
Same as last time, I'll spoil my paper because I could never vote Labour.
I'm Conservative but didn't trust Boris or the party last election so spoilt my paper then.
Why spoil it, why not just not vote? Because I have a right to vote and feel everyone should vote. Spoiling the paper shows my feelings but registers as a vote.

If you don't want to vote Labour or Tory but want to make your vote felt, why not look at the independent candidates and see if any of them offer something?

Maybe you would do that if there was any sort of point. It's the problem with our crappy FPTP voting system, rigged to ensure the arrogant large parties can forever take our votes for granted.

Simster · Apr 17, 2024

Is it PotG? said:
Absolutely ridiculous and poorly thought out response.

On a thread like this, people will stick to their guns and say that black is white if it aids their argument. You have your views, I have mine. Oddly I don't feel the need to belittle those with differing ideas and ideals.

It's not poorly thought through or ridiculous though is it? You just don't like the truth. You come out with your tiresome one-sentence right-wing views and NEVER explain them. Anybody who has ever visited the Brexit thread will know exactly what you are.

P.S. Don't forget to "like" @pb21's post.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 17, 2024

Bry Nylon said:
Blair was, in my view, an outstanding Opposition leader, regardless of whether you agree with his politics or his record in office.

He was dynamic, optimistic, compelling, looked like a 'winner' and surrounded himself with an excellent team that systematically rebuilt and re-branded the Party. And in spite of the 'Bambi' nickname, he didn't lack the guts for a political fight in pursuit of his goals. His landslide victory in 1997 was no surprise.

He was the 'charismatic leader' who instinctively understood aspiration, was a natural communicator and had a vision for the country that connected with voters - and critically he had a Shadow Chancellor who played the role of the 'competent but unexciting' managerial type who could be trusted with the drudge of getting up everyday and doing the finances.

I would agree with you, but I would say that, wouldn't I (in my view Blair was the best PM we have ever had). I joined the Labour party when Blair dumped clause 4, and was saddened when he capitulated to the mad jock (but I had resigned from the party by then owing to the proposed state funding of all religious schools, rejoining only when Starmer became leader).

Great days. But.....my satisfaction with the Blair government allows a great deal of after-timing over his success as leader of the opposition. My abiding memory of those days was the disintegration of the Major government, the sight of tory MPs rushing around trying to find ways of enriching themselves before losing office, shagging their secretaries, then giving po-faced pressers about wanting to spend more time with their family. Or, more commonly, someone else's family. I don't remember much about Blair in opposition other than I was looking forward to labour smashing the tory's back doors in. Which they did on that glorious night. Portillo losing his seat. Scenes!

I loved it, but I won't aftertime. I note also there are many on NSC who hated Blair for not being properly socialist, or being far too socialist, and won't have one decent word to say about him. Who was it who said governments lose elections, oppositions don't win them? Anyway....

I hope life is treating you well :thumbsup:

Is it PotG? · Apr 17, 2024

Simster said:
It's not poorly thought through or ridiculous though is it? You just don't like the truth. You come out with your tiresome one-sentence right-wing views and NEVER explain them. Anybody who has ever visited the Brexit thread will know exactly what you are.

P.S. Don't forget to "like" @pb21's post.

Another personal attack, how very typical.

Simster · Apr 17, 2024

Is it PotG? said:
Another personal attack, how very typical.

Christ, how very drippy.

Which bit don't you like? What I've said is entirely factually correct.

Lenny Rider · Apr 17, 2024

With a caveat.

In Worthing I'm voting for the person I bleieve is the best for the whole consitituency whether they voted for him or not, so therefore its Conservative.

However, as a nation I believe that Sir Kier Starmer, whether he wins both Worthing seats or not, will get a majority and hopefully go towards building a fairer, less woke, Britain.

Bry Nylon · Apr 17, 2024

Simster said:
If you don't want to vote Labour or Tory but want to make your vote felt, why not look at the independent candidates and see if any of them offer something?

Maybe you would do that if there was any sort of point. It's the problem with our crappy FPTP voting system, rigged to ensure the arrogant large parties can forever take our votes for granted.

I don't buy all the cynicism about FPTP. It worked brilliantly in the eighteenth century when 7 Cornish landowners and a horse called Malcolm could elect the Honourable Captain Ross Vennor Poldark to be the Member of Parliament for Truro so he could travel up to Westminster for 6 weeks a year and vote for stuff like increasing daily ale quotas for seven-year old tin miners.

Just give it a chance to settle in ffs.

WATFORD zero · Apr 17, 2024

Thunder Bolt said:
Yes, we found this out at the 2008 local elections when we had a Seagulls Party candidate standing. Three of us allowed in the count.
The standard ballot paper is one box marked with an X.
Some people put ticks. others an x in every box, others draw a penis, etc etc

Every spoilt paper is examined by the candidates with an electoral officer to see if it can be allocated to a candidate, and the other candidates have to agree the decision. It's quite amusing.

Reminded me of this, where the voter drew a penis next to a candidate, and because the penis was within the box, the candidate claimed it (successfully) as a vote :lolol:

https://metro.co.uk/2015/05/09/vote...gets-counted-and-helps-elect-tory-mp-5188845/

pb21 · Apr 17, 2024

Simster said:
There is very little point in quoting @Is it PotG? and expecting a sensible adult response to a political question. The best you'll get is a "like".

Maybe, hopefully not though, but I have ask @Ding Dong ! too.

It's certainly a strong opinion to have, i.e. that people who vote a certain way in the hope of solving undefined issues are deluded, but not not outline what the issues are and/or how they see that they would best be solved.

It would be good to have a reasonable discussion, hopefully forthcoming...

The Antikythera Mechanism · Apr 17, 2024

Bry Nylon said:
Blair was, in my view, an outstanding Opposition leader, regardless of whether you agree with his politics or his record in office.

He was dynamic, optimistic, compelling, looked like a 'winner' and surrounded himself with an excellent team that systematically rebuilt and re-branded the Party. And in spite of the 'Bambi' nickname, he didn't lack the guts for a political fight in pursuit of his goals. His landslide victory in 1997 was no surprise.

He was the 'charismatic leader' who instinctively understood aspiration, was a natural communicator and had a vision for the country that connected with voters - and critically he had a Shadow Chancellor who played the role of the 'competent but unexciting' managerial type who could be trusted with the drudge of getting up everyday and doing the finances.

Blair stepped into John Smith’s shoes, who had he not tragically died would’ve been the next PM and an excellent one too.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Apr 17, 2024

Thunder Bolt said:
The NHS is being deliberately run into the ground, and I would like to keep it. If that is delusion then I am deluded.

There needs to be a conversation on the NHS.

I have zero intention of voting Tory, but let's be honest - it's organisation that has a budget of close to £200 BILLION and is the WORLD's 7th largest employer (its employees include my wife)

French model? German model?

Something has to change.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Apr 17, 2024

Hotchilidog said:
Green for me, not just because I have the opportunity to actually get an MP I want, but also because they seem to be the only party taking the challenges this country and indeed the world faces seriously, in a way that the mainstream parties do not.

Even if I was not a Pavilion resident I could not lend Labour my vote, they are a party of Capital now and not Labour. I am hoping that a lot of my Labour voting friends optimism that we'll see a different Labour in government than I have seen over the last five years will be justified. I suspect they will be disappointed.

That said I am looking forward to seeing the Tories run out of town as they have done nothing but damage to this country since 2010. Given that they are the lamest of lame ducks it seems insulting to the nation that will hang around until the autumn before they finally pack their bags and go. The country has been telling them to F**k Off for years now but as usual they are still not listening.

I disagree - the current Labour policies are pretty centrist, which is what I - and I believe the majority of the UK actually want and need.

Diablo · Apr 17, 2024

Last time Conservatives won fairly easily. They/We have been through Covid, World downturn and Russian aggression affecting us all with prices increasing every where.
Whilst I`m prob voting Labour. I feel strongly that if Labour had won last election we would be in the same mess and Tories would be promising great things running down the government and the Tories would be favourites to win this coming election.

lawros left foot · Apr 17, 2024

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
More than happy to hear it.

I don't remember it, though. Does anyone?

I think all this proves is my point - it doesn't matter how 'successful' or 'unsuccessful' a leader of the opposition may be when they are the leader of the opposition - the only game in town is the general election and persuading the electorate to allow you to form a government. The very idea of Corbyn forming a government is the stuff of fantasy.

I rejoined Labour after Corbyn resigned, and disappeared over the horizon, condemning all forms of discrimination (except antisemitism). The most successful leader of the opposition of all time. On a par with being the best football club from Devon in the whole world.

Corbyn came quite close to forming a Government in 2017, before the antisemitism smears.
You say that winning a GE is the only game in town to be a successful LOTO, and yet in your earlier post you argue that neither Thatcher or Blair who both went on to win 3 GE from that position, was a successful LOTO.

To use another football analogy, you’re moving the goalposts to suit your agenda.

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[Politics] If there were a General Election tomorrow poll

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Harry Wilson's Tackle

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