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[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel



A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,908
Deepest, darkest Sussex
hans kraay fan club said:
I'm fully on board with punitive sanctions against Israel for the atrocities it continues to unleash on Gaza - but it would be a huge stain on our nation's character if we for months turned a blind eye to the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocents, only to be finally prodded into reaction by the tragic killing of one or two of our own people.
Click to expand...
I entirely see where you're coming from and do agree, however it does IMO provide a clear "line in the sand" to allow us to start to take that action. We should, as you suggest, have started some time ago, but for whatever reason did not do so. This marks something new and I believe would be something that most of the public would agree on as being an appropriate response.

After all, if any other nation on earth took out multiple British aid workers in such a manner you can bet we would be imposing sanctions on them faster than you can say "pariah".
 




Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,896
If anyone honestly thinks the IDF are going to carry out an impartial investigation on the deaths of 7 aid workers, they are living in cloud cuckoo land. Netanyahu has already said,

“Unfortunately, in the last day there was a tragic case of our forces unintentionally hitting innocent people in the Gaza Strip,"​


I would suggest that in the last 6 months there is a ‘tragic case’ of the IDF “unintentionally” killing:

  • 13,000 children - more children than in 4 years of world conflict (UNICEF) - 27 dead from starvation/dehydration (SaveTheChildren)
  • 9,000 Women
  • 140 journalists and media staff
  • 224 Humanitarian aid workers (inc more than 175 UN staff)
  • 484 Doctors, nurses and other health workers

Even now, after a recent change of policy for humanitarian ceasefires, the Biden administration is pressing Congress to approve a plan to sell $18 billion worth of F-15 fighter jets to Israel, and recently approved an arms package including 2,000-pound bombs, which can inflict damage to people up to 1,000 feet (300 metres) away. The UK/US having repeatedly vetoed calls for a ceasefire until a few weeks ago, are directly complicit in a quarter of a million civilians now facing starvation with half the population of Gaza (1.1 million) facing a catastrophic food crisis... If Netanyahu goes ahead with the ground offensive on Rafah armed with the weapons and ordinance supplied by the US and UK, with over half the population trapped in that small corner of the enclave, the human cost will be immeasurable.

So yes, the IDF will ‘investigate’ the deaths of 7 international aid workers ‘thoroughly’ , Governments in the West and Australia will express outrage, condemning these and other deaths, the UN Security Council will pass resolutions condemning breaches of International Law and the ICJ will promise to prosecute if war crimes have been committed but unless limited arms sanctions are immediately imposed on Israel, (which is unlikely to happen as Israel is a military ally in the ME and neither the US or the UK have an interest in imposing sanctions (as the guardian story below points out), the ”unintentional” killing will continue until Netanyahu says the job is done - Human lives have little currency in this war of attrition.

www.theguardian.com

UK’s arms export procedures give Israel benefit of the doubt

Government faces judicial review over its assessments of whether Israel is breaking international law in Gaza
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel - reported impact | Day 180

www.ochaopt.org www.ochaopt.org
www.aljazeera.com

Biden considers $18bn arms transfer to Israel, including F-15 jets: Report

Biden faces pressure from foreign partners, rights groups and some fellow Democrats to rein in arms sales to Israel.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
 


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,622
Gods country fortnightly
Last edited:


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,896
It should come as no surprise that Sue Braverman says that Israel is not only not breaking international law but doing everything to provide aid and protect civilians

“She said Israel was going "above and beyond the necessary requirements to ensure that civilian casualties are limited, to ensure that aid is received onto the Gaza Strip and distributed".

"I have seen evidence myself, in terms of very up-to-date photographic evidence, of plentiful food packages and trucks of food, water and medicines getting to the people of Gaza."

news.sky.com

Israel-Gaza latest: IDF halts combat leave as Iran fears grow; UK breaking international law by arming Israel, Sunak told

Israel has halted combat leave, as fears grow of escalation in the Middle East after two Iranian generals were killed in Syria. In the UK, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has been warned by former Supreme Court judges that continuing to sell arms to Israel could breach international law.
news.sky.com news.sky.com

Is anyone still buying this bullshit?
 


R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
5,685
Wiltshire
Zeberdi said:
If anyone honestly thinks the IDF are going to carry out an impartial investigation on the deaths of 7 aid workers, they are living in cloud cuckoo land. Netanyahu has already said,

“Unfortunately, in the last day there was a tragic case of our forces unintentionally hitting innocent people in the Gaza Strip,"​


I would suggest that in the last 6 months there is a ‘tragic case’ of the IDF “unintentionally” killing:

  • 13,000 children - more children than in 4 years of world conflict (UNICEF) - 27 dead from starvation/dehydration (SaveTheChildren)
  • 9,000 Women
  • 140 journalists and media staff
  • 224 Humanitarian aid workers (inc more than 175 UN staff)
  • 484 Doctors, nurses and other health workers

Even now, after a recent change of policy for humanitarian ceasefires, the Biden administration is pressing Congress to approve a plan to sell $18 billion worth of F-15 fighter jets to Israel, and recently approved an arms package including 2,000-pound bombs, which can inflict damage to people up to 1,000 feet (300 metres) away. The UK/US having repeatedly vetoed calls for a ceasefire until a few weeks ago, are directly complicit in a quarter of a million civilians now facing starvation with half the population of Gaza (1.1 million) facing a catastrophic food crisis... If Netanyahu goes ahead with the ground offensive on Rafah armed with the weapons and ordinance supplied by the US and UK, with over half the population trapped in that small corner of the enclave, the human cost will be immeasurable.

So yes, the IDF will ‘investigate’ the deaths of 7 international aid workers ‘thoroughly’ , Governments in the West and Australia will express outrage, condemning these and other deaths, the UN Security Council will pass resolutions condemning breaches of International Law and the ICJ will promise to prosecute if war crimes have been committed but unless limited arms sanctions are immediately imposed on Israel, (which is unlikely to happen as Israel is a military ally in the ME and neither the US or the UK have an interest in imposing sanctions (as the guardian story below points out), the ”unintentional” killing will continue until Netanyahu says the job is done - Human lives have little currency in this war of attrition.

www.theguardian.com

UK’s arms export procedures give Israel benefit of the doubt

Government faces judicial review over its assessments of whether Israel is breaking international law in Gaza
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel - reported impact | Day 180

www.ochaopt.org www.ochaopt.org
www.aljazeera.com

Biden considers $18bn arms transfer to Israel, including F-15 jets: Report

Biden faces pressure from foreign partners, rights groups and some fellow Democrats to rein in arms sales to Israel.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
Click to expand...
Great post.
And here's the view from the boss of World Kitchen who says his staff were systematically targetted car by car. I know which account I believe.☹️
 




fly high

fly high

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
1,317
in a house
Zeberdi said:
If anyone honestly thinks the IDF are going to carry out an impartial investigation on the deaths of 7 aid workers, they are living in cloud cuckoo land. Netanyahu has already said,

“Unfortunately, in the last day there was a tragic case of our forces unintentionally hitting innocent people in the Gaza Strip,"​


I would suggest that in the last 6 months there is a ‘tragic case’ of the IDF “unintentionally” killing:

  • 13,000 children - more children than in 4 years of world conflict (UNICEF) - 27 dead from starvation/dehydration (SaveTheChildren)
  • 9,000 Women
  • 140 journalists and media staff
  • 224 Humanitarian aid workers (inc more than 175 UN staff)
  • 484 Doctors, nurses and other health workers

Even now, after a recent change of policy for humanitarian ceasefires, the Biden administration is pressing Congress to approve a plan to sell $18 billion worth of F-15 fighter jets to Israel, and recently approved an arms package including 2,000-pound bombs, which can inflict damage to people up to 1,000 feet (300 metres) away. The UK/US having repeatedly vetoed calls for a ceasefire until a few weeks ago, are directly complicit in a quarter of a million civilians now facing starvation with half the population of Gaza (1.1 million) facing a catastrophic food crisis... If Netanyahu goes ahead with the ground offensive on Rafah armed with the weapons and ordinance supplied by the US and UK, with over half the population trapped in that small corner of the enclave, the human cost will be immeasurable.

So yes, the IDF will ‘investigate’ the deaths of 7 international aid workers ‘thoroughly’ , Governments in the West and Australia will express outrage, condemning these and other deaths, the UN Security Council will pass resolutions condemning breaches of International Law and the ICJ will promise to prosecute if war crimes have been committed but unless limited arms sanctions are immediately imposed on Israel, (which is unlikely to happen as Israel is a military ally in the ME and neither the US or the UK have an interest in imposing sanctions (as the guardian story below points out), the ”unintentional” killing will continue until Netanyahu says the job is done - Human lives have little currency in this war of attrition.

www.theguardian.com

UK’s arms export procedures give Israel benefit of the doubt

Government faces judicial review over its assessments of whether Israel is breaking international law in Gaza
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel - reported impact | Day 180

www.ochaopt.org www.ochaopt.org
www.aljazeera.com

Biden considers $18bn arms transfer to Israel, including F-15 jets: Report

Biden faces pressure from foreign partners, rights groups and some fellow Democrats to rein in arms sales to Israel.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
Click to expand...
Fairly insignificant compared to your list but can also add they shot dead two bare chested men, hands up, carry white tee shirts who were hostages they were supposed to be freeing.
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,896
fly high said:
Fairly insignificant compared to your list but can also add they shot dead two bare chested men, hands up, carry white tee shirts who were hostages they were supposed to be freeing.
Click to expand...
I did think of adding that to list but thought that this was a case of friendly fire which starts to complicate it - The IDF, according to Isreal defence agencies, also apparently shot some Israeli hostages being held on the kibbutzim on the day of the massacre and have lost a significant number of IDF soldiers in accidents/friendly fire but as you can imagine, accurate figures for any of this is hard to corroborate - the numbers for any casualties coming out of Gaza are likely to be much higher as there is little infrastructure (ie hospitals or morgues) left operational to count the dead anymore and journalists have all but been banned.

Heaven knows what’s happened to the 130 hostages still supposed to be held in Gaza or how many are even still alive.
 






Easy 10

Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
61,779
Location Location
1000013954.jpg
 












Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,896
AstroSloth said:
With most of OPs comments regarding people being anti-Semitic, it's likely that they criticise Israel's actions.
Click to expand...
It’s a common theme in recent Palestinian-Israeli discourse: Claims that those who are defending and speaking out for the human and civil rights of Palestinians in Gaza, are being ‘anti-semitic’ is just repeating an Islamophobic trope that Muslims are inherently dangerous and innately anti-semitic. Personally I am absolutely sick of some people using ‘anti-semitism‘ as an unfounded excuse to attack those who defend the rights of the Palestinian people,, when in reality they are simply harbouring Islamophobic sentiments behind a facade of fake concern for the Jewish people. It disempowers what ’antisemitic’ actually means and is insulting to those of us who actually have the insight to know when ‘Jews‘ are being used as an expedient excuse to push an anti-muslim agenda and not because those making a charge of anti-semitism actually give a shlte about the Jews or Israel.

This makes for enlightened reading on those points if anyone has the time or inclination:
 




aolstudios

aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
4,538
brighton
Zeberdi said:
It’s a common theme in recent Palestinian-Israeli discourse: Claims that those who are defending and speaking out for the human and civil rights of Palestinians in Gaza, are being ‘anti-semitic’ is just repeating an Islamophobic trope that Muslims are inherently dangerous and innately anti-semitic. Personally I am absolutely sick of some people using ‘anti-semitism‘ as an unfounded excuse to attack those who defend the rights of the Palestinian people,, when in reality they are simply harbouring Islamophobic sentiments behind a facade of fake concern for the Jewish people. It disempowers what ’antisemitic’ actually means and is insulting to those of us who actually have the insight to know when ‘Jews‘ are being used as an expedient excuse to push an anti-muslim agenda and not because those making a charge of anti-semitism actually give a shlte about the Jews or Israel.

This makes for enlightened reading on those points if anyone has the time or inclination:
Click to expand...
Wow.
Just wow
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,896
aolstudios said:
Wow.
Just wow
Click to expand...
Before responding and jumping to conclusions - did you even read the link?

- I wasn’t accusing you of anything but your response is telling that you don’t think anti-semitism has been weaponised by some people involved in political discourse on this issue. What actually is your agenda on this thread? How about expressing what you think should happen in Gaza and how you think Netanyahu is responding to the massacre - you’ve made numerous posts on this thread that seem largely negative and reactionary to other members who are appalled by what’s happening to civilians in Gaza without telling us what your POV is on the situation.

If you agree with Netanyahu’s policies then say so, and why, that would be a far more acceptable contribution and rational POV than this continuous hostile antagonism to everyone who is showing that they actually give a shit about the thousands of children being killed as a punishment for 7/10 😡

In all your posts and antagonistic smilie emojis on this thread, I can’t recall one post where you have expressed concern for the welfare of any of the innocent Palestinians being killed, nor even the aid workers that were recently killed. Why is that? Where is your humanity?

A much lighter read than the link above and written by a Jewish Harvard professor
www.thecrimson.com

For the Safety of Jews and Palestinians, Stop Weaponizing Antisemitism | Opinion | The Harvard Crimson

Antisemitism in the U.S. is a real and dangerous phenomenon. To contend against these and other antisemitic forces with clarity and purpose, we must put aside all fabricated and weaponized charges of “antisemitism” that serve to silence criticism of Israeli policy and its sponsors in the U.S.
www.thecrimson.com www.thecrimson.com
 
Last edited:


Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,789
Back in Sussex
This is a terrifying and chilling read, but explains how and why Israel have killed tens of thousands of innocent people as part of their so-called "precision targeting"...

www.theguardian.com

‘The machine did it coldly’: Israel used AI to identify 37,000 Hamas targets

Israeli intelligence sources reveal use of ‘Lavender’ system in Gaza war and claim permission given to kill civilians in pursuit of low-ranking militants
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 


GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,791
Gloucester
hans kraay fan club said:
I'm fully on board with punitive sanctions against Israel for the atrocities it continues to unleash on Gaza - but it would be a huge stain on our nation's character if we for months turned a blind eye to the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocents, only to be finally prodded into reaction by the tragic killing of one or two of our own people.
Click to expand...
True - but 'The straw that breaks the camel's back' would be a very valid argument.
 




POP_TONEZ

POP_TONEZ

Member
Feb 23, 2024
75
London
Zeberdi said:
Before responding and jumping to conclusions - did you even read the link?

- I wasn’t accusing you of anything but your response is telling that you don’t think anti-semitism has been weaponised by some people involved in political discourse on this issue. What actually is your agenda on this thread? How about expressing what you think should happen in Gaza and how you think Netanyahu is responding to the massacre - you’ve made numerous posts on this thread that seem largely negative and reactionary to other members who are appalled by what’s happening to civilians in Gaza without telling us what your POV is on the situation.

If you agree with Netanyahu’s policies then say so, and why, that would be a far more acceptable contribution and rational POV than this continuous hostile antagonism to everyone who is showing that they actually give a shit about the thousands of children being killed as a punishment for 7/10 😡

In all your posts and antagonistic smilie emojis on this thread, I can’t recall one post where you have expressed concern for the welfare of any of the innocent Palestinians being killed, nor even the aid workers that were recently killed. Why is that? Where is your humanity?

A much lighter read than the link above and written by a Jewish Harvard professor
www.thecrimson.com

For the Safety of Jews and Palestinians, Stop Weaponizing Antisemitism | Opinion | The Harvard Crimson

Antisemitism in the U.S. is a real and dangerous phenomenon. To contend against these and other antisemitic forces with clarity and purpose, we must put aside all fabricated and weaponized charges of “antisemitism” that serve to silence criticism of Israeli policy and its sponsors in the U.S.
www.thecrimson.com www.thecrimson.com
Click to expand...
Well said my friend I completely agree,

But I must say don't bother debating with rats. A man unconcerned with the blood of children should not be conversed with.
 




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