[Football] We are no better than last season at this point FACT

[dazzer6666]

He would have been absolutely calm about it except for pumping a fist during the goal celebrations.

It was the OTT and outrageous fist-pumping and aggressive touchline behaviour that led to his sacking, we all know that. Several months of piss-poor results and performances were simply an excuse.

 

[rogersix]

Oh, for goodness sake, when will people ever learn, coming on here with well thought out posts, with evidence to back their arguments. When in reality we all know that Hughton was sacked because he smells!*

* not really, but similar to the sort of infantile response you got...

so why do you think CH has been given three opportunities in the prem and been fired from them all?

 

[kemptown kid]

you really want to dig this one back out after nearly a month - fair enough.

Mike Ashley has sacked Sam Allardyce, Kevin Keegan, Joe Kinnear, Alan Shearer, John Carver, Steve McClaren and Rafa Benitez, along with Hughton, since 2007. Newcastle were 9th when Hughton was sacked - Ashley stated that he wanted a 'high-profile' manager and he promptly appointed Alan Pardew - Newcastle finished 12th. Since then they have been relegated twice and have only finished higher than 9th once (the season following the sacking of Hughton).

At Norwich Hughton was given very little money - he finished 11th in his first season and was sacked when Norwich were 5 points above relegation with 5 games to go. Norwich finished the season with 1D and 4L - in the 12 games before he was sacked Norwich had won 3, drawn 3 and lost 6 - getting 12 points. The Norwich board panicked and the club got relegated.

At Brighton Hughton was working with a bottom 3 budget and kept the club in the PL for two seasons in a row - very few managers have succeeded in doing this with a promoted team. As I have pointed out before - last season Southampton finished just above Brighton - with 11 players earning more than the highest paid player in the Brighton squad.

Hughton has done a remarkable job at every club he has managed (and been a coach) - he is highly respected and most people in football recognise the job he has done with all of the teams he has worked with. Very few managers have had the success he has had in the PL - and keeping a promoted club in the PL is a success. He has managed for longer in the PL than most managers who have been there - particularly over the past 10 years where there are only a small number of managers who have managed for longer in the PL.

Hughton has left Brighton - I suggest that it is appropriate to acknowledge and respect what Hughton achieved at the club - and then look forward to the future.

Spot on. Absolutely no point in dogmatic either/or regarding Hughton and Potter.
We can, and should, celebrate what Hughton and BHA achieved together - turning round a possible relegation, a play off near miss, automatic promotion, two seasons surviving in the PL - with some unforgettable highlights - and an FA Cup semi final. All in all, no manager has done as well at The Albion.
Savouring the memory of the Hughton years (or the Mullery, Melia, Cattlin, Gritt, Slade, Poyet etc years for that matter) is no barrier to enjoying the current phase of our team.

 

[Weststander]

so why do you think CH has been given three opportunities in the prem and been fired from them all?

Or, CH did well to get clubs there and manage in the PL. But in the harsh world of football results and board expectations, he got the boot, it happens to them all (even Poch and Wenger were deemed surplus to requirements). CH can be proud of his record.

 

[darkwolf666]

so why do you think CH has been given three opportunities in the prem and been fired from them all?

Because he worked for two boards / chairmen who thought their clubs to be bigger than they in reality were. The third, Brighton, he ended up running scared of the very thing most likely to get him sacked, relegation, and turned to doing everything to make sure we didn’t lose. This anti football as some have called it was his undoing.

Hughton has demonstrated, when correctly backed and funded he can produce an attack minded team - ultimately chairmen didn’t give him the backing or the right tools to prove this in the top flight.

 

[Perkino]

Because he worked for two boards / chairmen who thought their clubs to be bigger than they in reality were. The third, Brighton, he ended up running scared of the very thing most likely to get him sacked, relegation, and turned to doing everything to make sure we didn’t lose. This anti football as some have called it was his undoing.

Hughton has demonstrated, when correctly backed and funded he can produce an attack minded team - ultimately chairmen didn’t give him the backing or the right tools to prove this in the top flight.

I am a massive CH fan and wanted him to remain at the helm, I appreciated what he did and that he had very little option about how to grab results due to the squad. However Potter has done so much more with almost the exact same squad, we are a little loose at the back which is exposed when someone is out of position but as long as we continue to pick up points and remain in the league this season then our future under Potter is so much brighter than with CH

 

[Icy Gull]

Spot on. Absolutely no point in dogmatic either/or regarding Hughton and Potter.
We can, and should, celebrate what Hughton and BHA achieved together - turning round a possible relegation, a play off near miss, automatic promotion, two seasons surviving in the PL - with some unforgettable highlights - and an FA Cup semi final. All in all, no manager has done as well at The Albion.
Savouring the memory of the Hughton years (or the Mullery, Melia, Cattlin, Gritt, Slade, Poyet etc years for that matter) is no barrier to enjoying the current phase of our team.

I am as guilty as anyone of moaning and griping last season and being relieved when Potter was brought in BUT CH is an absolute legend in Brighton history. He gave us some of my best memories and games as manager and those last few months should not be allowed to besmirch the fact that he is right up there as one of our best ever managers for what he achieved for L’il Ole Brighton. Much as I have loved what GP has brought he has a long way to go before he can be considered a competitor as one of our best ever managers.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

BUT CH is an absolute legend in Brighton history. He gave us some of my best memories and games as manager and those last few months should not be allowed to besmirch the fact that he is right up there as one of our best ever managers for what he achieved for L’il Ole Brighton. Much as I have loved what GP has brought he has a long way to go before he can be considered a competitor as one of our best ever managers.

Very considered and correct.


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[Tom Hark Preston Park]

IMHO taking sides in CH v GP is as meaningless as taking sides in DK v TB

 

[Weststander]

IMHO taking sides in CH v GP is as meaningless as taking sides in DK v TB

It’s the ludicrous binary mindset about all aspects of life.

 

[b.w.2.]

I am a massive CH fan and wanted him to remain at the helm, I appreciated what he did and that he had very little option about how to grab results due to the squad. However Potter has done so much more with almost the exact same squad, we are a little loose at the back which is exposed when someone is out of position but as long as we continue to pick up points and remain in the league this season then our future under Potter is so much brighter than with CH

Well said


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[b.w.2.]

The ****wits on here who just cannot accept CH was in the process of getting us relegated really need to wake the **** up. At least we have a chance now AND we are being entertained again.


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[Weststander]

The ****wits on here who just cannot accept CH was in the process of getting us relegated really need to wake the **** up. At least we have a chance now AND we are being entertained again.


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I was as relieved as anyone that CH was sacked.

But we don’t know that he’d have got us relegated in May 2020. Maupay and Mooy are the type of players we’ve been crying out for, for some considerable time. Potter has the luxury of having a PL class striker with genuine pace who can last 90 minutes, and a PL quality creator.

 

[b.w.2.]

I was as relieved as anyone that CH was sacked.

But we don’t know that he’d have got us relegated in May 2020. Maupay and Mooy are the type of players we’ve been crying out for, for some considerable time. Potter has the luxury of having a PL class striker with genuine pace who can last 90 minutes, and a PL quality creator.

Of course we will never know, but... 3 wins in 23 games says almost certain relegation... something had to change... that something was Chris... and, yes, I WAS a big fan...


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[GT49er]

I am a massive CH fan and wanted him to remain at the helm, I appreciated what he did and that he had very little option about how to grab results due to the squad. However Potter has done so much more with almost the exact same squad, we are a little loose at the back which is exposed when someone is out of position but as long as we continue to pick up points and remain in the league this season then our future under Potter is so much brighter than with CH

Well yes, plus Trossard, Mooy, Webster, Maupay, Alzate and Connolly...........

How would CH have got on with those six (or other additions that he might have preferred) added to the squad? I don't know - and neither do you. Anyone who comes on NSC claiming they do know is, frankly, a ****wit.

The ****wits on here who just cannot accept CH was in the process of getting us relegated really need to wake the **** up. At least we have a chance now AND we are being entertained again.

It's not a binary thing. Many of us think CH was a great manager for Brighton, although things certainly went badly wrong in the final half season. Perhaps he could have turned things round after a good summer window - or maybe he wouldn't have; who knows? There was certainly enough evidence in the previous four years to show that he could get teams playing sparkling, exciting football...........
So, Chris was great - we are/were CH fans; Potter is now doing well, and has got us playing more exciting football than we saw in the last half of last season - so, we're Potter fans too. Get it? We appreciate what CH did and what Potter is doing - it's not a binary choice -and the only ****wits are the ones who try and pretend it is.

 

[Perkino]

Well yes, plus Trossard, Mooy, Webster, Maupay, Alzate and Connolly...........



Although last season CH had more options, Andone, Hemed & a fit and firing Murray instead of Maupay. Kayal rather than Mooy, Knockaert & Locadia instead of Trossard. Alzate & Connolly are players that CH overlooked in preference to experience.

Almost the same squad but this season with some long term injuries to Bernardo, March and Izquierdo plus Trossard being in and out of the side due to injuries. Even the greatest of CH supporters would have to admit that the team has been playing the sort of football that very few thought they were capable of

 

[GT49er]

Although last season CH had more options, Andone, Hemed & a fit and firing Murray instead of Maupay. Kayal rather than Mooy, Knockaert & Locadia instead of Trossard. Alzate & Connolly are players that CH overlooked in preference to experience.

Dear god! I've seen some attempts to downgrade all that Hughton achieved, but your's surely takes the biscuit! More options? Ha!

Hemed - yes we all liked old Tomar but at best he was only cover for Murray - and a Murray who may have been 'fit and firing', but was also most certainly tiring. You must be the only NSCer who didn't mention that Murray was getting old, even slower and couldn't go on much longer! Then there was the well past his prime Kayal - you're comparing him to Mooy? Okey doke, carry on.......... Then there was the usually less than sparkling Knocky who most other team's defenders seemed to have rumbled (and who it appears can't really pull up trees in The Championship any more), and a useless Dutch DJ. Izzy was injured for most of last season too, as also were Alzate and Connolly (who were also a year further back in their development too).
I admit that I suspect CH would have been unlikely to put Connolly and Alzate into the first team, but the idea that Potter is working miracles with 'almost the exact same squad' that CH couldn't do a thing with is just nonsense. Six new first team players, each one improving the squad, actually makes quite a difference!

 

[twickers]

There are small, but significant decisions that Potter has made which have impressed me. For example, Duffy sidelined because of distribution and the way Potter wants the ball played from the back and shape of defence. His tactical changes are positive. Those decisions feel very different from CH. I'm not sure there is much to gain by any threads comparing them though....CH was tremendous for us, no point in comparing history. A better question is what are you enjoying about the current style and what would you change to improve?

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Well yes, plus Trossard, Mooy, Webster, Maupay, Alzate and Connolly...........

How would CH have got on with those six (or other additions that he might have preferred) added to the squad? I don't know - and neither do you. Anyone who comes on NSC claiming they do know is, frankly, a ****wit.

and the six you name are among the 11 players with the most PL appearances this season for Brighton - on top of that Trossard, Webster and Maupay all cost more than any player Hughton signed in the previous two seasons and Mooy would also have cost a similar amount if he was to be purchased.

Although last season CH had more options, Andone, Hemed & a fit and firing Murray instead of Maupay. Kayal rather than Mooy, Knockaert & Locadia instead of Trossard. Alzate & Connolly are players that CH overlooked in preference to experience.

Potter had an option of keeping Andone - instead he sent him on loan to Galatasary where he has played 6 out of 29 games.
Potter could have kept Hemed - instead he was released and is playing at Charlton - where he has played 5 games
He could have also kept Kayal - he is on loan at Charlton - and has played 6 games
Knockaert - well he was sent on loan to Fulham where he has played 11 out of 23 games
Locadia is now on loan at Hoffenheim - where he has played 6 out of 19 games.

To suggest that the five players you mention were on a par with what is now in the squad is daft - and the evidence is that 3 are playing in the Championship (and not playing that often) while the other two are in weaker leagues than the PL - and playing few games.

On Murray 'firing' - I would suggest that this is down to two factors - Potter is playing a style of football that doesn't play to Murray's strengths - and - he has started all of 3 PL games this season. If you want Murray to score he needs to play and you have to play to his strengths

As for Hughton overlooking Alzate and Connolly - they were both out injured for months - they couldn't have played irrespective of whether Hughton wanted to play them or not - and when Connolly did recover in April he couldn't get into a League One team.

Almost the same squad but this season with some long term injuries to Bernardo, March and Izquierdo plus Trossard being in and out of the side due to injuries.

Izquierdo was missing most of last season as well - Gross missed 18 games. Injuries are part of the game - you deal with them as best you can.

Even the greatest of CH supporters would have to admit that the team has been playing the sort of football that very few thought they were capable of

Is Potter's team playing a more entertaining style of football - absolutely - is he doing it with the same squad that Hughton did last year - well somewhat - except for the three record transfer signings, a high profile loan signing and two kids who have come through after long-term injuries. This team has a lot more pace than what Hughton had to work with.

What Potter hasn't achieved yet is guaranteeing another season in the PL - although this team looks capable of doing that. His team is also a bit more shaky at the back than last season and despite all the adventurous and entertaining play they still lack a killer instinct that they will need. It has been entertaining and hopefully the rest comes together over time.

I'm not sure there is much to gain by any threads comparing them though....CH was tremendous for us, no point in comparing history. A better question is what are you enjoying about the current style and what would you change to improve?

This I agree with

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

But we are better, because the style of football is better and largely with the same players. More investment and we'll get better. The absolute sense of entitlement is appalling.

End of discussion.