[Politics] Rees Mogg / Andrew Bridgen Grenfell

[clapham_gull]

Really ? This is something the media has whipped you up to thinking

My advice is to do your research and find the other contemptible bullshit this man is responsible for broadcasting before suggesting others have been whipped up by a media storm.

Most of which doesn't get widely reported.

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[ManOfSussex]

I'm leafleting for a party where I am. Arguing about it anonymously is so much better I'm sure.

Good luck everybody.

 

[beorhthelm]

I am not a great fan of Rees Mogg but he is getting a battering from his opponents when he just said he would not stay in a burning building. Clumsy yes but making out he is insulting people and he is more intelligent, nah. I don't think he mean't that or even implied it. I think most of us would feel uneasy being told to stay in a burning building

i rather think the comments demostrate Rees-Mogg hadn't actually read about the issue, given the controversy on advice given. our common sense is to not stay in a burning building but the express guidance in tower blocks is to stay, for very good operational and safety reasons. if he couldnt read that deeply he deserves all the criticism coming.

 

[nicko31]

Bridgen's best effort since his infamous Irish passport moment.

As for Mogg, is anyone remotely surprised?

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Sorry everyone, but regardless of who said what, would you stay in a burning building?

Without knowing the precise details, it sounds like peculiar advice to those poor people.


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[drew]

The bloke just said he would not be happy being told to stay in a burning building. The rest is fake outrage to something all of us would probably think

I'm not sure anyone would appreciate being told to stay in a building they knew was on fire but the 'Stay Put' advice was on the basis that the fire could be contained and that there was smoke everywhere so people wouldn't be able to find their way out.

The implication, either intentional or not, was that the victims should have ignored the advice from the LFB and used their common sense, ergo, the fact they didn't was that they had no common sense and had contributed to their own demise.

You are just as crass to suggest that those that did escape or those that had relatives that died have 'fake' outrage.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

You did not need to be swayed by the media, he clearly said it and is now trying to back track in the way only he could.
On the news it showed footage of people who wanted to get out but could not due to the thick smoke in the corridor, the woman went on to have a still born baby.
Sorry uncle, you are bang wrong this time, this is Rees Mogg we are talking about here and i am surprised how you and anybody else could defend him, he is like a Viz character, a complete stuck up prat.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Sorry everyone, but regardless of who said what, would you stay in a burning building?

Without knowing the precise details, it sounds like peculiar advice to those poor people.


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There’s a lot of angst..so not sure anyone will listen

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

i rather think the comments demostrate Rees-Mogg hadn't actually read about the issue, given the controversy on advice given. our common sense is to not stay in a burning building but the express guidance in tower blocks is to stay, for very good operational and safety reasons. if he couldnt read that deeply he deserves all the criticism coming.

Apologies - didn’t see your post.
What are those reasons?


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[darkwolf666]

I am not a great fan of Rees Mogg but he is getting a battering from his opponents when he just said he would not stay in a burning building. Clumsy yes but making out he is insulting people and he is more intelligent, nah. I don't think he mean't that or even implied it. I think most of us would feel uneasy being told to stay in a burning building

But now he’s saying he would have stayed in the building and listen to the advice of the experts, but hindsight tells him he wouldn’t have as he now knows how it would have played out. WTF

Why don’t these people ever say “sorry, I got it wrong” they might appear more human and in touch, instead they just seem desperate, desperate to cling to power and in JRM’s case, desperate to be Tory leader when Boris gets found in the proverbial ditch!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm leafleting for a party where I am. Arguing about it anonymously is so much better I'm sure.

Good luck everybody.

Equally pointless but much warmer.

http://www.classwarparty.org.uk/ ?

 

[darkwolf666]

Sorry everyone, but regardless of who said what, would you stay in a burning building?

Without knowing the precise details, it sounds like peculiar advice to those poor people.


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Stay put was and in certain circumstances still is the correct advice.

Imagine the pandemonium if everyone was told to evacuate a burning building, the crush on the stairs, similar to Hillsborough, people dying from smoke inhalation or even descending into the fire itself, and yet the fire could be put out.

Clearly we now know this wasn’t the case at Grenfell. The LFB gave what they considered the best advice, they clearly didn’t have all the information they needed, like the fact the tower had been dipped in a highly inflammable coating!

Hindsight is a wonderful tool, trying to score political points from it isn’t.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Stay put was and in certain circumstances still is the correct advice.

Imagine the pandemonium if everyone was told to evacuate a burning building, the crush on the stairs, similar to Hillsborough, people dying from smoke inhalation or even descending into the fire itself, and yet the fire could be put out.

Clearly we now know this wasn’t the case at Grenfell. The LFB gave what they considered the best advice, they clearly didn’t have all the information they needed, like the fact the tower had been dipped in a highly inflammable coating!

Hindsight is a wonderful tool, trying to score political points from it isn’t.

Yes that’s fair enough.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing......

The emergency services are on a hiding to nothing most of the time.....


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[beorhthelm]

Apologies - didn’t see your post.
What are those reasons?

opening doors and movement through the stairwell creates a chimney effect, spreading smoke, heat and fire; dangerous for residents to evacuate especially in smoke, blocking firefighters access.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

opening doors and movement through the stairwell creates a chimney effect, spreading smoke, heat and fire; dangerous for residents to evacuate especially in smoke, blocking firefighters access.

Thanks - I understand the rationale more now....


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[Bry Nylon]

Sorry everyone, but regardless of who said what, would you stay in a burning building?

Without knowing the precise details, it sounds like peculiar advice to those poor people.

When the temperature outside your front door is between 1000 degress (head height) and 800 degrees (floor level), it is pitch dark and there is no breathable air, the advice to stay put is generally sound.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sorry everyone, but regardless of who said what, would you stay in a burning building?

Without knowing the precise details, it sounds like peculiar advice to those poor people.


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It is standard practice in tower blocks, which are supposed to be fitted with fire doors on every flat, and on every landing door leading to the stairs. Residents are not a allowed to use the lifts because of electrical failures.
What people, including the firemen didn't know, at the time, was that the council/ builders had used inferior doors, windows, and cheap cladding on the outside, which acted as a chimney spreading the flames up the outside of the building so the fire entered the flats through the windows.

Residents leaving their flats would normally block up the stairs and prevent fire fighters getting access to the higher floors. The stairwells would also fill up with smoke so residents would be walking blind, inhaling the smoke as they went. Firefighters would have breathing apparatus to help them guide people out.

It is nothing to do with being stupid or clever.

 

[clapham_gull]

No fake moral outrage on my behalf, I watched it burning it all day.

Over to you Rees Mogg fan boys....

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[darkwolf666]

Yes that’s fair enough.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing......

The emergency services are on a hiding to nothing most of the time.....


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‘‘Twas the same with the riots, all the experts “knew” what should have been done after the event and when the smoke had cleared. Being on the front line at a time of crisis is bad enough, without knowing politicians will score points over any mistakes made...

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

JRM is peddling a sweeping and unsubstantiated, subjective comment re 'stay put' from an otherwise evidence based and objective inquiry. Yes, there are valid tactical and technical issues for the LFB to address. There are valid reasons for a 'stay put' policy in a tower block. Yes, it might have been rescinded earlier but having carefully read the Phase 1 Inquiry report, it seems speculation rather than factual to suggest there would have been a substantially different outcome.

Maybe it is no coincidence that JRM's comments also default to the establishment, 'we know better than the people' viewpoint, but more significantly - and rather nicely protects commercial interest and political expedience.

All rather convenient given the government's inertia in resisting repeated calls over many years from the Fire & Rescue Service and other professional bodies to review the Building Regulations, compounded by cut-backs and privatisation of local authority Building Control officers, lack of oversight of building projects and not forgetting Mayor Boris reducing the operational capability of the London Fire Brigade.

It was LFB who campaigned for years regarding the evidence of fires caused by 'white good kitchen appliances (the initial cause of the Grenfell fire) and fought against industry, commercial and political intransigence.

Someone, somewhere rode rough-shod through the Building Regulations to install combustible cladding on the exterior of Grenfell, thereby negating most of the safety provisions already built into the tower block.

A pity that JRM didn't choose to champion those issues - who knows it might just have gained him some positive headlines and votes!

Sadly none of this gives me confidence whether Phase 2 of the Grenfell Inquiry will deliver the root and branch findings that are required.

JRM can sleep safe and sound tonight in his Westminster pied-a-terre or west country estate. I don't suppose he's ever lived in a multi-cultural high rise tower block...nor had to deal with such an unprecedented scenario when the sh*t hits the fan.