[Politics] Brexit

[Guinness Boy]

You are trying to claim the sign off means nothing. I am calling bullshit on that. The psoter should be banned, or NSC is condoning this abhorrent viewpoint.

No it isn’t. NSC turned him in to a pink fairy and tolerates a very amusing spoof. He’s a figure of fun. Literally no one takes him seriously. Except you.


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[Guinness Boy]

His sign off is not a "figure of fun". I do not take them seriously but their sign off is offensive still. If this is the totally unacceptable response to this from this site then I will have to leave and urge others to do so. I will not be part of a community that condones that posters views. Those views are not funny nor can they be made fun of.

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[The Clamp]

May I refer you to Trump, Donald . See, Border Wall : Mexico and Travel Ban : Muslims . Your post is worryingly accurate !

Quite. These right wing loons squeal for tolerance without understanding it's meaning. Some things should not be tolerated. Racism. Sexism. Misogyny. victimising of minorities. All the stuff Trump and Farage indulge in. No, it won't be tolerated. It's not a matter of opinion and sometimes people's opinions aren't worth paying attention to.

 

[Pretty Plnk Fairy]

You are trying to claim the sign off means nothing. I am calling bullshit on that. The psoter should be banned, or NSC is condoning this abhorrent viewpoint.

As Paul Mccarterney once sanged, live and let live

Regards
DR

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

I am seriously concerned about your ability to moderate this forum. This is an unacceptable response.

No it isn’t. NSC turned him in to a pink fairy and tolerates a very amusing spoof. He’s a figure of fun. Literally no one takes him seriously. Except you.


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I call bullshit on this bit. I'm yet to see anything from the spoof account that is vaguely amusing.
The original is more amusing. But surely in this day and age we should not all be laughing and pointing at someone with a clear mental disability.

 

[The Clamp]

It’s pretty obvious to anyone with a smattering of sense that Das Reich should not be posting under any guise but the mods ain’t backing down so I say either leave or let it go.

 

[shingle]

Serious question....
Why do you feel the need to insult 'politicians'?
Some individuals like Boris Johnston are self serving liars I grant you, deserving of insults - and maybe there are issues of integrity involving some Remain supporting MPs; but most MPs are getting extreme flak for simply doing the job we elected them to do - and doing it to the best of their ability.

Where to start .... Cash for questions, MP's expenses (so many of them were at it), Never giving a straight yes/no answer in TV debates or interviews to simple questions. So many times have I been shouting at the tele 'answer the bloody question and not another one that nobody's asked you'

So my contempt for some of our politicians began a while back, but this contempt doesn't apply to the likes of Margaret Thatcher, Tony Benn, Denis Skinner etc, people that I have the utmost respect for as honourable people of conviction. I take your point however that there some MP's, our MP for Lewes for example who take flak for doing the job that we elected them to do.

 

[Juan Albion]

Never giving a straight yes/no answer in TV debates or interviews to simple questions. So many times have I been shouting at the tele 'answer the bloody question and not another one that nobody's asked you'

Usually preceded by "What I will say is. . ."

 

[Chicken Run]

It seems pretty disgusting that the mods are just turning a blind eye to it. Maybe they are trying to get jobs at the FA or FIFA.

You were either pissed 3 hours ago or you need help, unless you are well west of Zulu time wtf are you doing up spouting shit like this on a FOOTBALL message board ffs?

 

[Lever]

Where to start .... Cash for questions, MP's expenses (so many of them were at it), Never giving a straight yes/no answer in TV debates or interviews to simple questions. So many times have I been shouting at the tele 'answer the bloody question and not another one that nobody's asked you'

So my contempt for some of our politicians began a while back, but this contempt doesn't apply to the likes of Margaret Thatcher, Tony Benn, Denis Skinner etc, people that I have the utmost respect for as honourable people of conviction. I take your point however that there some MP's, our MP for Lewes for example who take flak for doing the job that we elected them to do.

Really then, it's a matter of numbers. There are about 650 MPs and the vast majority of them are not 'high profile' and are just doing their job.

The comment that you insult 'politicians' (a generic group of individuals) and they deserve it is not only unfair but plays directly into the populist agenda espoused by Farage.

The MPs you mention were/are conviction politicians and deserve respect for that - even though (as in my case) I think some of their views are wrong-headed. Many others follow the party line in answering questions, presumably out of loyalty or ambition to progress up the ladder . This leads to the frustrating responses they give.

However, we are torn apart over the Brexit issue and this is clearly reflected in the lack of progress in Parliament over this matter. It is NOT the politicians being treacherous or wishing to thwart 'the will of the people'; the 'will of the people' is unclear and divided. Farage is making political capital in sending out the simplistic message that politicians cannot be trusted.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Don't worry your little head about him and Trump too much. I am worried about all the vein bulging and nostril flaring that goes on here at the mention of their names. Do they keep you awake at night? Have you sought help about it? I find it amusing that they arouse such passion, such bile, such venom. Normally that is reserved for mass murderers, oppressors and dictators, not politicians.
Political figures used to be figures of fun, lampooned and satirised. Times have changed. There is no gentle ribbing anymore. Its full blown maniacal hate. No middle ground. Its the verbal war fought at the extremes and that is deeply worrying. Worrying that tolerance is disappearing from our society. The other viewpoint is no longer allowed. Instead of discussion it is insult. It is the refuge of the insecure and the intolerant.

I think you have a point in that to some extent we do (all!) sometimes lose a sense of proportion. But...…………


1. to be tolerant of everything is to be tolerant of nothing - ie the word tolerance loses it's currency. It's a logical non-starter.

2. so we all chose what to be tolerant of and of course some people seem to be more psychologically disposed to be more tolerant than others. I would guess that this sort of thread tends to attract those who have strong views on a key issue. It sort of goes with the territory.

3,Some ideologies have more 'built-in' tolerance than others. Western Liberalism is built on this; fascism is to some extent the polar opposite. We tend as a country to lean towards the former and most of us are quite proud of this,


4. But it still raises the point of those things that we are relatively intolerant of. Well we can be intolerant of the intolerant. And this is why Trump attracts so much flak (quite rightly in my view ); although Trump is not wholly intolerant - for example he is quite tolerant towards the KKK ('There were bad people of both sides'), But there's another thing at play here. What if the actions of someone produce what you consider to be disastrous consequences?


I would argue that even if 'The Donald' wasn't a serial groper of women, a corrupt businessman (the Trump university), a racist (Mexicans are rapists) and all the rest of it AND if his policies on trade were not divisive and damaging then he still would be worthy of being in receipt of justified intolerance for just one thing: his denial of climate change (and the actions, or non-actions, that go with it) which ultimately could lead to more human cost than the combined effects of Mssrs Stalin and Hitler. But that's, of course, arguable.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Where to start .... Cash for questions, MP's expenses (so many of them were at it), Never giving a straight yes/no answer in TV debates or interviews to simple questions. So many times have I been shouting at the tele 'answer the bloody question and not another one that nobody's asked you'

So my contempt for some of our politicians began a while back, but this contempt doesn't apply to the likes of Margaret Thatcher, Tony Benn, Denis Skinner etc, people that I have the utmost respect for as honourable people of conviction. I take your point however that there some MP's, our MP for Lewes for example who take flak for doing the job that we elected them to do.

The thing is, though, we live in a parliamentary, representative democracy. The phrase "undemocratic" is often used towards remainers, and yet the current parliament was elected AFTER the referendum, making it not only a more current representation of the county's political leanings but giving it exactly the same control leavers say they want back. You absolutely cannot say that we need to take back control from "unelected bureaucrats in Brussels" and then complain about our MPs. Who do you want running this country?

 

[shingle]

Really then, it's a matter of numbers. There are about 650 MPs and the vast majority of them are not 'high profile' and are just doing their job.

The comment that you insult 'politicians' (a generic group of individuals) and they deserve it is not only unfair but plays directly into the populist agenda espoused by Farage.

Yes, I sometimes insult some politicians and Yes, sometimes they deserve it. Didn't you read my previous post as to some of the reasons why?.

 

[shingle]

The thing is, though, we live in a parliamentary, representative democracy. The phrase "undemocratic" is often used towards remainers, and yet the current parliament was elected AFTER the referendum, making it not only a more current representation of the county's political leanings but giving it exactly the same control leavers say they want back. You absolutely cannot say that we need to take back control from "unelected bureaucrats in Brussels" and then complain about our MPs. Who do you want running this country?

Who are you answering, you've highlighted my post, yet answered some other issues that I haven't raised. But since you mention it, yes, the current parliament was elected after the referendum, but the majority of them CON/LAB were elected on a 'leave, enact the will of the people' ticket. As to who I want running the country, well, it's our own MP's that we elected, but these MP's are not fireproof and beyond criticism.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Who are you answering, you've highlighted my post, yet answered some other issues that I haven't raised. But since you mention it, yes, the current parliament was elected after the referendum, but the majority of them CON/LAB were elected on a 'leave, enact the will of the people' ticket. As to who I want running the country, well, it's our own MP's that we elected, but these MP's are not fireproof and beyond criticism.

So, what is 'the will of the people' that should be enacted ?

Is it to leave the EU with a deal and a customs union

or

Is it to leave the EU with 'no deal', a border in NI and WTO terms

Now, I think most people would agree that these are very different solutions with hugely different impact on Britain's future. Since it has never been clear which is 'the will of the people', what should parliament enact

(Or of course, you could continue to ignore the real reason why Brexit hasn't happened, let the clusterf*** continue, and continue to blame everything and everyone else).

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Serious question....
Why do you feel the need to insult 'politicians'?
Some individuals like Boris Johnston are self serving liars I grant you, deserving of insults - and maybe there are issues of integrity involving some Remain supporting MPs; but most MPs are getting extreme flak for simply doing the job we elected them to do - and doing it to the best of their ability.

Teresa May took £143 million from families with disabled children.
In the last few days of her time as Prime Minister she urgently tried to push through £10 billion of spending so that she was not just known as the Prime Minister failed to deliver Brexit.
This was after for years she denied that schools were struggling to provide pencils, nurses were not queueing up at food banks, poverty is not on the rise and homelessness doesn't need to exist and universal credit is working.
Even for a mild mannered gentleman like me, I was slightly irked by this.
Eeyore told her to piss off when she asked for the money because he needed it in case of no brexit.
So even the new leader will probably not be given the money that we know is there.
Obviously everything will be fine and dandy once we get the £350 million a week back though.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

When you do some digging and research into what the Trump administration has been doing, you realise exactly why people have been gathering to try and enlighten those who may not know.

And to a point, i'm ****ing DELIGHTED that tolerance is disappearing - where there is tolerance, apathy usually lies not far behind, and that's what the politicians want; you to agree and carry on without even questioning what they are doing.

Tolerance. Quite. I lived in Vancouver in the early 80s. The local politics was dominated by a party called 'Socred' which is short for Social Credit. British Columbia is so rich and locals so disengaged from polictcs they allowed this populist party to rule the roost for decades, and booted them out only when they acquired a leader so cocky conservative and corrupt that even the sleepwalking electorate of British Columbia woke up.

It is important to call out the clowns. They are in a minority and most MPs are decent. Unfortunately, as in all walks of life, the psychopath often rises to the top. Even in my game (so-called academia).

If I had been advocating low tolerance to leisure drug use, then got bounced for repeated coke sniffing I would be too ashamed to stay in polotics. But of course I wouldn't have been such a hypocritical turd in the first place. Gove, however, is rightously indignant that something from a long time ago, about which he is deeply sorry, should in any way be an impediment to his lust for glory. And as for Farrage.

 

[Lever]

Yes, I sometimes insult some politicians and Yes, sometimes they deserve it. Didn't you read my previous post as to some of the reasons why?.

.... probably best if you either name them or emphasise that those deserving of insults are very much in the minority then.

 

[Lever]

Teresa May took £143 million from families with disabled children.
In the last few days of her time as Prime Minister she urgently tried to push through £10 billion of spending so that she was not just known as the Prime Minister failed to deliver Brexit.
This was after for years she denied that schools were struggling to provide pencils, nurses were not queueing up at food banks, poverty is not on the rise and homelessness doesn't need to exist and universal credit is working.
Even for a mild mannered gentleman like me, I was slightly irked by this.
Eeyore told her to piss off when she asked for the money because he needed it in case of no brexit.
So even the new leader will probably not be given the money that we know is there.
Obviously everything will be fine and dandy once we get the £350 million a week back though.

Excellent!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So, what is 'the will of the people' that should be enacted ?

Is it to leave the EU with a deal and a customs union

or

Is it to leave the EU with 'no deal', a border in NI and WTO terms

Now, I think most people would agree that these are very different solutions with hugely different impact on Britain's future. Since it has never been clear which is 'the will of the people', what should parliament enact

(Or of course, you could continue to ignore the real reason why Brexit hasn't happened, let the clusterf*** continue, and continue to blame everything and everyone else).

You can ask these questions again and again. Everyone knows that Brexit means Brexit. How clueless are you*?

I was interested to hear this morning that Boris is going to renegociate. There are several obstacles in the way:

1. There is only one deal on offer and the EU have said they will not go back to square 1 for de novo talks.
2. Boris hasn't actually explained what deal he wants, even over the small matter of hard border with Eire or hard border with Ulster (thrown to the wolves).

The utterly preposterous thing is that tory MPs hare lining up to back him. 49 Signatories now, is it? The tories seem to have transitioned into the lemming party

*irony or facetiousness? You decide.