[Politics] Brexit

[Publius Ovidius]

Christ, don't tell me Trump's getting involved now.

Wow!

 

[Publius Ovidius]

No, you've said I'M privileged .... now explain how I am ?

You are privileged as you dodged a bullet with what we were talking about a few months ago! Lol

It's not good mate.

BTW. You going tomorrow?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Wow!

 

[Baldseagull]

This is all very superstate ,so the UK is to dumb to make a law ,no wonder we need to be in the EU ,they know best !.

No, we can do it, so can the other 27, but it is easier and cheaper if one reliable party does it, and it makes the single market work if we all have exactly the same definition of what Pasteurised milk is, or what Extra virgin Olive oil is. We all get a chance to alter and amend the rules if we think something is a bit wrong.
It's not Superstate to have a set of rules we all play by, it's a good idea, like a Football Association having a set of laws.
Most of the 500 or so laws and regs are to do with this sort of thing, some are environmental, which stops competition driving down environmental standards, some are health and safety related, same reasons, there is very little EU law that is not well thought out and beneficial for everyone.

 

[Baldseagull]

Why would it be obvious I read the links.

There are enough interesting people debating on here with interesting views to read. Why would anyone waste time reading your thousands of links. That's your problem. You don't have your own view. You just link to others. You are the least interesting person on this thread, presuming you know what everyone else is thinking and doing. There is no point in anyone giving their opinion, because all you do is send them some other boring link. As I said you, you are a typical know all, that's knows **** all!! There are some very narrow minded boring people on this thread. You are right up there with the worst of them.

If I ever see you make an interesting point I will congratulate you on it. But don't hold your breath. Unless I am willing to open numerous links you post and read someone elses view, I will never see it!!

Personally, if someone makes a statement, I find it useful if there is a link to where they got their information.

 

[Baldseagull]

until of course we dont, its only a treaty away from being removed. and why shouldnt we want to as good EU citizens?

I am getting fed up of posting this, but the European Union act 2011, prevents a UK government from agreeing to any significant changes to existin treaties or new treaties with the European Union without asking the UK population in a referendum for permission, it would need the commons, the lords and the electorate to all say we wanted the Euro, or any other thing that changed our relationship with the EU for it to happen.
As good EU citizens I hope we one day do take steps towards closer union, but I appreciate I hold a very much minority view, and even I would want there to be some reforms before we do that, but the key point is, even if I was Prime minister with a huge majority, it could not happen unless I held a referendum which supported it.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I thought MEP's did it after being told who to vote for.

I think you may be getting confused between the EU Parliament and the EU Commission. The President of the EU Parliament is an Italian, at the moment, Antonio Tajani.

 

[vegster]

That is utter bullshit, but I have seen it on Facebook before amongst a list of other bullshit, it really is not true, we will not ever have to take the Euro against our wishes.

I was reading the other day about a whole raft of various groups that were urging people on Facebook to e-mail their MP and demand they vote for May's agreement or encourage No Deal, lots of small, single issue groups without much previous history and few members

. Names like, Britain's Future, We Are The 52% and Mainstream. Britain's Future was discovered to have been the largest single UK advertiser on Facebook, having paid £422,000 on adverts for a hard Brexit. The investigation led back to a well known supporter of Brexit who has been a political advisor to Boris Johnson and has run a political advising company. Interestingly enough the article concludes with this paragraph.


" Although the documents point towards the individuals running the campaigns, it remains unclear who is ultimately picking up the substantial bill for this attempt to persuade MP's that there is an uprising for a hard Brexit "

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not at all .... I simply pointed out that the proposals for closer ties include an EU Army , a Financial Commissioner/Director and that I had heard a reputable person on a reputable TV News channel report that countries would be forced to use the Euro (opt out or not) from 2022

Oh spot the difference from what I said and the link that was posted earlier ... I said 2022 ... the link reports on 2020 ... two entirely different dates.

As for pointing out that a Veto is only as good as who holds it in their hand was a response to your shouting we have a Veto ( I am not deaf or blind so why you felt the need to shout just shows you cant handle a conversation in a civil way ) , your claim we have a Veto is fine but only if its used when required.

Please do not believe the lies that are being peddled. I have seen several posts on Facebook and elsewhere saying the Lisbon treaty will kick in in 2020 etc, but it actually kicked in, in 2009.
The euro and European army are being touted as lies to scare people because quite a few people are starting to think a People's Vote is a good idea, so let's feed out the same misinformation to put the public off.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Oh Goody yet more referendums .... that will make everything better ... see my other post where I simply say the point I was making is any second referendum will give poor choices for both sides as even 'Remain' is not as everyone says as keeping the status quo if the EU plans are acted upon , thats not the EU we are currently in that is a different EU.

Don't ever live in Switzerland. They have an average of two referendi a year.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You are privileged as you dodged a bullet with what we were talking about a few months ago! Lol

It's not good mate.

BTW. You going tomorrow?

Ha ha .... indeed ! Not a bullet I'd like to take ! Unfortunately, due to curcumstances that you know about, no, can't justfy using current reserves on going tomorrow.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You are displaying why now.

So you won't answer the question directly then ?

 

[Eeyore]

At the end of the day its been a complete waste of time & money as there is little chance of any agreement & will inevitably go to a second referendum which wont solve anything as it will just anger who ever loses & incense the 'leavers' from the first vote who will wonder what their vote is worth if its ignored.

Referendum will end up ... Leave on a bad deal .... Remain & hope we veto the EU plans for a Financial Director and a Euro Army not to mention the fact we would have to use the Euro from 2022 whether we want to or not plans in Euro Parliament

That is not a fact. The UK and Denmark have an opt out in place. There is a lot of rubbish doing the rounds.

 

[Baldseagull]

not quite, the non-Euro adopting nations are supposed to be progressing to adoption along that time frame. UK and Denmark (with veto) not included for now.

Despite that commitment being there, I do not believe any country wishing to delay their joining will find that difficult to do, and if they needed to, they could simply break the fiscal rules whilst in the ERM period, which is to peg their currency close to the Euro, by letting it get out of those parameters for a period, and they would be set back 2 years. No one wants another Greece.

 

[Baldseagull]

Your entitled to your opinion but your wrong , it was actually on one of the TV news channels and a European somebody (so called expert) who said it but as I said no idea who , all I can say is it was a reputable person on a reputable channel. I wont get in an argument over it as I say I dont wish to get involved in rumours or hearsay I just posted it as a possibility like the Euro Army & the Financial Commissioner/Director that the EU wish to have.

Unfortunately you used the word "fact" in your original post, which when it is known not to be, is going to get some flak, I appreciate you making it clear your error was made in good faith though.

 

[Baldseagull]

I am not disputing we have the power of a Veto ..... but do you honestly see Corbyn or whoever is the LibDem leader using it to veto anything the EU suggest such as the two things I have said the EU hope for ? .... a Veto is only as good as the person who holds it in their hand which would be useless in the hands of Labour or LibDem leaders. Not that the Conservatives are any better as a political force but your assumption that we have a Veto so we will use it can not be upheld unless you have a crystal ball in which case what are the winning lottery ticket numbers please ?

We can veto any UK Government trying to sign up to anything that is an addition to the treaties, I mean you and me, in a referendum, or at least we could have until the act was repealed by the withdrawal act. If we revoke article 50 and remain, and we revoke the withdrawal act, the European Union Act 2011 will come back into force, and that act prevents a UK Government signing us up for anything with the EU unless we say so.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Apparently the Brexit talks have broken down between the Government and Labour because Theresa May refused to make any changes to the political declaration.

Plus ca change.

 

[Baldseagull]

i thank you for the links but i am of the mind i wish this country to control this country including its finances , military , laws & trade deals. Its my preference i have never said otherwise , what i originally pointed out which has somehow got lost is that its almost a certainty we are heading for a referendum and that the choices will both have major drawbacks including remain which everybody assumes will mean the status quo which if the eu gets its way for closer ties most certainly wont be the case.

arrrrrrgghhhhhhhh!!!!!

 

[Weststander]

Apparently the Brexit talks have broken down between the Government and Labour because Theresa May refused to make any changes to the political declaration.

Plus ca change.

Where do you see the UK in say 4 years time:
a) In the EU as before, so no change?
b) Outside the EU, a Hard Brexit?
c) Some other relationship, such as a Customs Union, Canada+, Norway+, etc?

I haven’t got a clue, but suspect that (b) will never happen ... there will never be 326 MP’s in support of that, in my opinion.

 

[Triggaaar]

Labour have been under no obligation to back May's deal so cannot take responsibility for this failing. What they potentially will end taking responsibility for is not being able to work with the Tories to come to a workable solution. And you can bet your bottom dollar that the Tory party and the right-wing press will ensure this happens at every opportunity.

But that would happen even if Corbyn didn't agree to meet May. There's no logic is the argument that it was a trap and it would harm him to take the meeting.