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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Baldseagull
Well-known member
on the EU position, i dont understand why a few weeks ago there were "hints", "overtues", made that minor alteration to the agreement could be made. they could help get the deal over the line, if some fine detail, wording could change. now they state it cannot be changed, when they know the deal was refused. i know its all game theory, just dont get the hardening when its not needed. they set themselve for a climb down, or force no deal, on hope of extension (doesnt resolve the core issue) or abandonment (does anyone seriously see how that will happen?)
As far as I am aware, all that was talked about was rephrasing it to reassure ERG types that the EU would work seriously to avoid the need for the backstop ever coming into play, and if it did come in to play, to despense with it as soon as possible. This is not a change in their position, it could be rephrased, but legally the position would be the same.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,903
Even MoS has finally realised No deal is entirely possible, shirley it would be easier to admit what is pretty obvious to most people rather than continue with this tedious routine of pretending you know more than people who are clearly better informed
Well we'll know soon enough enough. Don't forget - patience is a virtue
Baldseagull
Well-known member
What if he was joking when he said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie,"? And if he was serious, was he lying?
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,747
There’s a lot of ground to cover in your post I doubt I can do it justice, so here goes.
1) The EU is an uber capitalist project, always was and always will be, I know you don’t want to accept that fact, but a fact it is. Ergo supporters of the project are either, Tories, crypto Tories or at best neoliberals which are deconstructed Tories. I have been banned from this thread for upsetting some of the shrill sensitive types on here for maintaining that position, but save a continual stream of personal attacks no one has been able to dispel the fact that the EU isn’t a capitalist Tory inspired project.
2) As per 1) you want to remain because you think the EU is less Tory than the EU........and you accuse me of ignorance.
3) what a miserable joyless type you must be, you could come back with something more witty than that can you? Land of my fathers......listen to yourself. Why do you even care about this storm in a teacup.
4) as per 1) the EU is all about the money, and the EU Parliament et al is merely the gossamer thin veil that conceals it’s black foul Tory monetarist heart. No deal will create problems all over the EU and UK but specifically in Ireland, so the EU is only as strong as its weakest point. If Ireland is subjected to deprivation as a consequence of political intransigence by the EU then the whole project could be dead in the water. This is epoch changing moment for the EU and would propel Brexit to the front of the EUs problems.
Brexit and the Irish birder is not yet it’s biggest problem, an economic crisis is, and holding the back stop line could create the conditions for that.
The EU Parliament elections happen in May, a continuing crisis in Ireland, coupled with economic damage compounded by the ongoing problems in France, Germany and Italy will not bode well for pro EU parties.
So, in my opinion, the EU has more to lose in playing fast and lose with Brexit, so I think there will be a deal as oppose to no deal. You may of course end up being right, but you can’t say (yet) that I’m wrong.
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,747
I would at first check out the providence of the man’s conduct.......
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...blocked-eu-curbs-on-tax-avoidance-cables-show
I would promptly conclude he is a lying Tory shit that couldn’t be trusted.
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,747
Give me some credit Tarquin, if I was a kind of neo Black and Tan frothing at the mouth with anti papist bile about the bog trotters I would link Brexit and the consequences for Ireland to their stereotypical love of the humble potato.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/break...cut-off-seed-for-2019-potato-crop-892607.html
Back on project earth though, no deal Brexit will put Ireland properly in the cart, I don’t want that, the ROI Govt don’t want that, the UK Govt don’t want that and no doubt the EU don’t want that.
The ROI is unique in the EU and EZ in light of how much it trades with the U.K. and US, post Brexit it will be trading more with non EU countries than EU countries. A border around the UK will be catastrophic for it’s economy, if the doomsayers on here (you included) are right about the impact of no deal then it’s not unreasonable to suggest the impact will be even worse for Ireland.
That is why there will be a deal........everyone has too much to lose, not least the capitalists behind the EU and UK Govts.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
It's entirely possible yet entirely impossible at the same time - Me and Anthony Joshua could agree to fight at Wembley on Saturday March 30th. I could try and get ready and do some training for it I suppose. I could even be mad enough to go ahead with it and get in the ring with him and attempt to give it a go after the bell for the 1st goes. Thing is, if the ref didn't stop it very soon afterwards, or my corner didn't throw in the towel very soon afterwards, I'd have to. It'll be very chastening and futile though and the terms of the fight, purse and any rematch were always down to him and Eddie Hearn anyway as I didn't have much of a say, much of a clue or know what I could get and they'll be quite narked that the ppv sales weren't good and they wasted time and lost money, but they'll more than cope. I hope Eddie and Anthony will be nice to me once I see sense though - I'm sure they will.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
As Luxembourg PM, he wanted to maintain the ability to attract large corporations to Luxembourg through low tax liabilities, because it was good for Luxembourg. Now he is on the other side of the fence and is wanting to reduce the ability of member states to give corporations an easy ride in that way. Poacher turned Gamekeeper, if you like.
There are few saints in politics, Juncker isn't one of them, but he is not half as bad as your bedfellows, Mogg and Johnson.
I worry about you, I understand that to meet your responsibilities, you earn your crust in a way that produces nothing of use, I assume you realise that when you win, someone else loses, and yet you show utter contempt for someone else who acts similarly to meet his responsibilities, in your case to increase the prosperity of yourself and family, and in his, to do likewise for his country.
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,747
I fear it is likely to be a fudge that can give flexibility to both sides, but won’t resolve the essential underlying issues. Everyone claims victory and nothing really changes.
That would be straight out of the Euro crisis playbook, page 1, chapter 1, sub section 1.01.
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,747
I worry about you, Juncker was at the epicentre of a global corporatist tax dodge in Luxembourg. If you want to excuse him for facilitating that mechanism so that huge multinationals avoided paying their fair share in the nations that they operated in so that Directors could get even bigger bonuses that’s your lookout.
As I say this board is soaking in Tories.
PS you don’t know what I do for a living, all the innuendo from you and your fellow travellers on this thread about me is flattering but a bit in the style of the classic box room furious masturbator.
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,747
No, I would rather a deal, but a good deal. No deal is a consequence that provides leverage for a good deal.
Only one minor problem. Everybody has a different idea of what a good deal is. Or no idea as the case may be.
The daft thing is apart from occasionally being worried that Polish people are actually Islamic warlords I sincerely doubt the majority of leave voters thought much about the EU, they won't have noticed the benefits it brings either unfortunately. They'll notice if we do leave though.
They were only really triggered when the Daily Mail ran a story about Latvian pimps on benefits coming here and nicking all the labouring jobs or a lie was painted onto the side of a bus. Little nudge from racism's Nigel Farage and it's off to the races. Or the dole queue for the unlucky ones.
Still, looks like May has got it all sorted out.
They were only really triggered when the Daily Mail ran a story about Latvian pimps on benefits coming here and nicking all the labouring jobs or a lie was painted onto the side of a bus. Little nudge from racism's Nigel Farage and it's off to the races. Or the dole queue for the unlucky ones.
Still, looks like May has got it all sorted out.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
No innuendo intended, I think it was fairly direct.
I am saying his policies were good for Luxembourg, even if morally and ethically questionable, but his role as Leader of Luxembourg was to ensure prosperity there, and you cannot say he was unsuccessful in that. As a small nation, there are limited ways to do it, he chose a way that was effective for Luxembourg and detrimental to the rest of the EU.
I don't know exactly what you do, but I have an idea, so hand on heart, can you say that when you have your best pay days, it isn't to someone else's detriment?
Do you produce something of use in society, aside from your income taxes?
Baldseagull
Well-known member
P.S. this is one of the areas I am most keen for the EU to have some more power, to prevent the large corporate tax evasion by shifting to the lowest tax base.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47055188
“The SMMT was clear that Brexit presented what it calls "the most significant threat to the competitiveness of the UK automotive sector in a generation"
Car investment HALVES.
Inward investment fell 46.5% to £588.6m last year from £1.1bn in 2017, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) says.
Production fell 9.1% to 1.52m vehicles, with output for the UK and for export falling 16.3% and 7.3% respectively.
Brexit uncertainty has "done enormous damage", said SMMT chief Mike Hawes
More bad news that will affect industry and the man on the street as car manafacturers sound red alert . Still, on our way, eh.
“The SMMT was clear that Brexit presented what it calls "the most significant threat to the competitiveness of the UK automotive sector in a generation"
Car investment HALVES.
Inward investment fell 46.5% to £588.6m last year from £1.1bn in 2017, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) says.
Production fell 9.1% to 1.52m vehicles, with output for the UK and for export falling 16.3% and 7.3% respectively.
Brexit uncertainty has "done enormous damage", said SMMT chief Mike Hawes
More bad news that will affect industry and the man on the street as car manafacturers sound red alert . Still, on our way, eh.
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Beat me to it just read the same report this is really getting serious even Brexitees must start to see the damage that voting to leave is doing!!!!!!!
They will find some way to dismiss it. But eventually when it starts affecting them and their families, maybe losing a job, a child not being able to get a foreign uni place, perhaps the treatment on the U.S.N.H.S is too expensive and their granddaughter suffers more than she would have had to.
They may start to realise what they have done then.
Mental Lental
Well-known member
My money's on "it would've happened anyway."