[News] Grenfell

[Eeyore]

View attachment 97312TView attachment 97312I wouldnt wish this tragedy on anybody , but here a list of the poor souls that perished , how many british names on that list ? (ive heard the relatives accents on news reports so lets not try to pretend they were all native) when my marriage went tits up i ended up in a bedsit with a mini fridge and cooker in the corner which i struggled to pay for as i was skint, worked and paid taxes all my life, been in the army, where*was MY f*cking council flat ?? they can*find em for everybkdy except our own

I don't understand why you are trying to start a separate debate here. I'm not suggesting that you cannot produce evidence of this but I would have thought that if council housing reports, taking the country as a whole, were produced along the lines of ethnicity and place of birth the overall statistics would be reflective.

But back to my original point. Why here, why now ?

 

[symyjym]

Shift workers could account for some of that.

That said, I'm not sure what the deal is when people imply there were a lot more dead. What would anybody- specifically the government- have to gain by fiddling the figures? If 150 people died, it can't really make that dreadful situation worse: it's a human tragedy whether ten, fifty or a hundred perished.

Also, how would you keep it quiet if you had tried to hush up the numbers? Are families going to say nothing when the list of dead is published and all their relatives are seemingly not on it? Granted, some might have reasons not to stir things up, but there's no way in my mind another fifty (say) grieving families are just going to pretend everything is fine (and other people would notice their loss even if they didn't publicly say anything!).

It is easier to name people who are in this country legally and not name those who aren't and cannot be identified. Would the government have the motivation to make public that they have 250 unidentified bodies. It's embarrassing on several levels. But this is apparently a conspiracy.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

You are probably right but it appears our current government seem very anti-immigrants

Of course they are. Our country voted against foreigners effectively, when we voted for Brexit. We want to be insular. Politicians keep their positions through playing to the masses. They're a reflection of us.

 

[Baker lite]

See post 35

I’ve just perused post 35 as instructed,
You’re still talking out of your clacker valve..

 

[jaghebby]

That's a load of bollocks about who gets council properties. Instead of taking it out on people who have "foreign" names and who are likely to have brown skins. Why don't you take your anger out on successive governments whose policy has been to stop Council's building more Council Housing! You may or may not be overtly racist but just because some one has a foreign sounding name or a brown skin doesn't mean to say they haven't lived here all their lives, worked and paid taxes so have as much right to a council flat as you do!

View attachment 97312TView attachment 97312I wouldnt wish this tragedy on anybody , but here a list of the poor souls that perished , how many british names on that list ? (ive heard the relatives accents on news reports so lets not try to pretend they were all native) when my marriage went tits up i ended up in a bedsit with a mini fridge and cooker in the corner which i struggled to pay for as i was skint, worked and paid taxes all my life, been in the army, where*was MY f*cking council flat ?? they can*find em for everybkdy except our own

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Brighton Mod]

No - the biggest questions are why this happened, was it preventable, and what can be done to stop in from happening again?

The advice given previously by the fire brigade (to stay put) was sound assuming that tower blocks were designed and built to the specification that they should have been. Now they've changed their advice (to flee rather than stay put) as they are not satisfied with the structural integrity of many tower blocks.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...s-cladding-unsafe-fire-brigade-advice-to-flee

No idea why you've fabricated the notion of a cover up - and chosen to blame the Mayor for it when he had been in place for six weeks at the time.

Ah, they've changed their advice, thats useful after such a tragedy. When it comes to inspecting private accommodation the Fire brigade are all over the job, making recommendations, demanding changes and using the law to enforce their reasons. What inspection regime did they use at Grenfell? were indeed any recommedations made and if so were these followed up or not. Mayor Khan sought to extract maximum political capital capital from this tragedy, indeed a weasel, scumbag, bully ( see his attitiude towards women councillors at London Council meetings). The LBF and it needs to be distinguishable from the fire fighters on the ground, presided over information and advice that led to the death of so many people, on what basis did they make that advice. Take your political hat off and approach this from a rational point of view.

 

[Spicy]

How do you get through passport contol at the airport?

I didn't realise he was overseas - sorry wasn't paying attention. He would have to obtain entry clearance.

 

[WATFORD zero]

View attachment 97312TView attachment 97312I wouldnt wish this tragedy on anybody , but here a list of the poor souls that perished , how many british names on that list ? (ive heard the relatives accents on news reports so lets not try to pretend they were all native) when my marriage went tits up i ended up in a bedsit with a mini fridge and cooker in the corner which i struggled to pay for as i was skint, worked and paid taxes all my life, been in the army, where*was MY f*cking council flat ?? they can*find em for everybkdy except our own

I really think it's time to change your username again. Everybody knows you have a single agenda, but I really can't sum up how much you disgust me

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I didn't realise he was overseas - sorry wasn't paying attention. He would have to obtain entry clearance.

He was refused a visa by our 'compassionate' Home Office, which has changed dramatically since 2015 when a certain Theresa May was minister. Evil woman.

 

[beorhthelm]

Take your political hat off and approach this from a rational point of view.

you havent. the Fire Brigade advice was based on the notion that each flat is a fire/smoke proof cell with in the building, and that they can get to and extinguish a fire or assist evacuation before the fire takes hold and becomes a danger. fire racing up the side of the building is not part of that, so they change their advice since the previous assumption was not reliable.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

you havent. the Fire Brigade advice was based on the notion that each flat is a fire/smoke proof cell with in the building, and that they can get to and extinguish a fire or assist evacuation before the fire takes hold and becomes a danger. fire racing up the side of the building is not part of that, so they change their advice since the previous assumption was not reliable.

The front doors and doors to the stairs were supposed to be fire doors, which would protect the residents.
Nobody had any idea the cladding on this tower would funnel the flames up the outside of the building, causing windows to break with the heat, and flames entering the flats from the outside. This fire was unique.

 

[Spicy]

He was refused a visa by our 'compassionate' Home Office, which has changed dramatically since 2015 when a certain Theresa May was minister. Evil woman.

I have friends in immigration so it annoys me that the staff there, who are overworked and underpaid, are vilified for the decisions they make, despite the fact they act in accordance with immigration law. It sounds more like an entry clearance issue then, and he would have had to demonstrate an intention to return after the inquiry. We are only hearing his side of the story as the official side will never comment. And surely he would have had a right of appeal (I don't know, just surmising).

 

[alfredmizen]

That's a load of bollocks about who gets council properties. Instead of taking it out on people who have "foreign" names and who are likely to have brown skins. Why don't you take your anger out on successive governments whose policy has been to stop Council's building more Council Housing! You may or may not be overtly racist but just because some one has a foreign sounding name or a brown skin doesn't mean to say they haven't lived here all their lives, worked and paid taxes so have as much right to a council flat as you do!

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

Yes there has been underinvestment in housing , this doesnt detract from the fact that immigrants are being allocated social housing whilst british people are languishing on the waiting list for decades , ive seen it first hand

 

[alfredmizen]

I really think it's time to change your username again. Everybody knows you have a single agenda, but I really can't sum up how much you disgust me

words cannot convey how little i care .

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I have friends in immigration so it annoys me that the staff there, who are overworked and underpaid, are vilified for the decisions they make, despite the fact they act in accordance with immigration law. It sounds more like an entry clearance issue then, and he would have had to demonstrate an intention to return after the inquiry. We are only hearing his side of the story as the official side will never comment. And surely he would have had a right of appeal (I don't know, just surmising).

I have been a civil servant which is why I named Theresa May, who changed the rules in 2015. Civil servants shouldn't be villified for politician's decisions, and I hope you don't think I was blaming the workers.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yes there has been underinvestment in housing , this doesnt detract from the fact that immigrants are being allocated social housing whilst british people are languishing on the waiting list for decades , ive seen it first hand

I'm going to bite, when I said to myself I wouldn't. What names do British people have? Smith, Brown, Johnson, Bloom, Barber?

Your marriage breaking up is nothing to do with the housing crisis. I'm ex-service and so was my first husband. We got a council house within three weeks of him leaving the Navy.

Your post is racist, pure and unadultered racism.

 

[Brighton Mod]

you havent. the Fire Brigade advice was based on the notion that each flat is a fire/smoke proof cell with in the building, and that they can get to and extinguish a fire or assist evacuation before the fire takes hold and becomes a danger. fire racing up the side of the building is not part of that, so they change their advice since the previous assumption was not reliable.

So they gave inadequate advise, condemned many to a dreadful death but hold no responsibility? If its not part or their remit , what is? You talk about notions, the Large One talks about assumptions, does anyone have any facts based data on this? people were in their flats for up to four hours waiting for advise and guidance, neither came. There will be multi layers of responsibility at Grenfell, I hope we get some real facts and not some 'I would like to thank the emergency services' diatribe from investigators. The truth will out and I await for outcomes or recommendations, but given the time its taken to deal with the Shoreham Air Crash, I might not be aroun by that time.

 

[Beach Hut]

I'm going to bite, when I said to myself I wouldn't. What names do British people have? Smith, Brown, Johnson, Bloom, Barber?

Your marriage breaking up is nothing to do with the housing crisis. I'm ex-service and so was my first husband. We got a council house within three weeks of him leaving the Navy.

Your post is racist, pure and unadultered racism.

Have you only just realised this obvious racialism ?

 

[Brighton Mod]

The front doors and doors to the stairs were supposed to be fire doors, which would protect the residents.
Nobody had any idea the cladding on this tower would funnel the flames up the outside of the building, causing windows to break with the heat, and flames entering the flats from the outside. This fire was unique.

I doubt if the circumstances of this conflagration are unique and I doubt that nobody had any idea of what could happen. Your thesis is far too simplified, it would be better to wait for more information to come from the inquiry.

 

[Simster]

Yes there has been underinvestment in housing , this doesnt detract from the fact that immigrants are being allocated social housing whilst british people are languishing on the waiting list for decades , ive seen it first hand

Your willingness to jump all over immigrants just baffles me. What you say here may be true, but there may be good reason for it. Your marriage breaks down? Sorry, don't want to sound harsh here as it could happen to anyone, but why should the state pick up the pieces? If an immigrant's marriage breaks down and he walks into a flat then you may have a point, but otherwise you're comparing apples to oranges.

As you know, I have a degree of sympathy with your PoV with regard to British working classes being ignored, but other times you don't do yourself any favours and this just appears nothing more than a racist outburst. I wouldn't expect anyone's marriage break up to be handled by the state for a start.

I've just had a look at Camden's social housing points system (it was the first one that came up in my google search) and it's very complicated (last page gives the points system at a glance):

https://www.camden.gov.uk/ccm/cms-service/stream/asset/?asset_id=3573104&

If you can be arsed, perhaps you can point out where this inherently favours immigrants over the rest of us.