Doesn't give Leavers carte blanche to do whatever they please. The referendum had no legal force in and of itself, it is up to the Parliament to decide how to follow the wishes of the public.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Doesn't give Leavers carte blanche to do whatever they please. The referendum had no legal force in and of itself, it is up to the Parliament to decide how to follow the wishes of the public.
melias shoes
Well-known member
- Oct 14, 2010
- 4,830
Which is what debate is all about.
melias shoes
Well-known member
- Oct 14, 2010
- 4,830
Do shut up. I can imagine it would've had all the legal force requirements if the result was 48-52 in favour of remaining. As we were told Leave Means Leave and that was by the project fear remainers.
sussex_guy2k2
Well-known member
- Jun 6, 2014
- 3,752
It still amazes me that we, as a country, voted to leave with one of the primary reasons being we wanted to be more democratic, yet in this instance where Parliament is demanding a say, those same people aren't happy. I fear that many people don't understand what democracy is.
And I do wish it had been made clear from the get go that referenda aren't legally binding. It astounds me that people seemed to believe otherwise.
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,335
If it had been the other way round it, i.e. remain won, do you think that would have been the green light and all the legal force for May to say we are going to join the €, without consulting parliament?
The answer to that question is no.
Just because leave won doesn't mean leaving whichever way May et al likes the most, without scrutiny. That would be silly.
melias shoes
Well-known member
- Oct 14, 2010
- 4,830
Don't be silly. No one in their right mind would join the Euro currency. Would they ?........oh
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
To be fair, I think those that are against the involvement of Parliament are simply of the view that MPs can't be trusted to enact the will of the people as expressed in the Referendum. Democratic accountability is the point of this exercise but it will only work if Parliament takes this responsibility. If instead they try to thwart Brexit then I believe they will diminish their role in the eyes of the electorate. For this reason I think there is no issue with Parliamementary involvement because I don't think there will be more than a handful of EU extremists willing to risk our democracy for their personal view.
GoldWithFalmer
Seaweed! Seaweed!
GoldWithFalmer
Seaweed! Seaweed!
The Referendum was given and an Act was set up that passed 2 readings and gave us a simple question that had two outcomes.............now if you offer me two choices you offer me two choices on the proviso that i may chose either and that...
Well if let's just say it's like offering a child a choice of a sweet in a sweet shop,one more costly than the other,you don't offer the choice if you are not prepared to honor the childs choice.
Further,the MP's have already voted 6-1 in favor of giving the referendum,that offered the choice,that also went through the possibility that the referendum could use the Royal Prerogative to allow the leader of the Government the ability to invoke article 50...
It has already been debated.....what is shocking in all of the is the fact that all the MP's failed to foresee the very possibility of a "Leave" vote..
cheshunt seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 2,498
I don't think for a minute that Parliament will use this to over-rule the result of the referendum. The only scenario in which this might happen is if the government fails to present a credible plan for it which puts the onus on the government to do their job properly in preparing such a plan; I can't see how that is a bad thing.
What worries me most about the response to this ruling is the ease with which the press and certain politicians can present Parliament as an enemy of democracy rather than the heart of it. As a Labour Party member I also was alarmed by the way that Momentum have presented Labour MPs in the same way. If you continually undermine the role of Parliamentary Democracy you must be aware that you are opening the way up to something different.
Hastings gull
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2013
- 4,635
I hope that you are right, but it is wise never to underestimate a politician's vanity. Afterall, they can always dress it up by saying that the deal is just not right, and my conscience would not allow me to ... etc
deletebeepbeepbeep
Well-known member
- May 12, 2009
- 20,966
Even if we Brexit there must be slim to no chance we will leave the single market now, thank goodness.
Hastings gull
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2013
- 4,635
And therein lies your problem -what is credible to one is not to another. And as threads on here about the train dispute show, dogma is more important than plain old common sense. All you have to do is say that this is not a good deal for Britain, and I am not voting for it.
drew
Drew
Using your analogy, if you give a group of children a choice of buying one type of sweet from one of two shops then they vote on which shop. However, the argument is then on what sweet the group then buy. Some might want hard nougat, others might want a soft caramel. How do you decide when you can only have one type?
Baldseagull
Well-known member
It was more like asking a child to choose between a cheese sandwich and a chilli pepper, the bloody kid hated cheese so much he chose the chilli pepper, we know it will burn, but is it a jalepeno or a naga?
GoldWithFalmer
Seaweed! Seaweed!
you pose the question before hand............ the kids are told.......Nougat means this shop (leave) and Caramel means this shop (remain) ............you have a vote,the kids decide 52% in favor of Nougat.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Agree with the first point and to add to your last sentence if people try to ignore or undermine the referendum result the same thing applies. If someone had reservations about the scale and rate of immigration .. Parliamentary democracy has been a bit of a let down. Most major political parties didn't even acknowledge this was an issue and the one that eventually did only paid lip service to it. So they vote UKIP which gets 4 million plus votes and one solitary voice in parliament. They then vote to Leave the EU expecting it would end free movement yet we still have people who lost the vote insisting free movement is retained. Most likely the very same people who be the first in the line to condemn a rise in support for the far right/racist abuse/attacks ...
We can not be sure what would have happened if the vote was the other way, because it did not happen, i suppose you could be correct, but i feel that if the vote had been Remain there would not be be constant changing, disruption and demonising of the result.
As for having the Euro as our currency, thankfully that was avoided years ago,
So we do not know if "the answer to that question is no", really.
The problem being that parliament is made up of 650 people. Now what seems more democratic - the wishes of 17m+ people or the wishes of 650 people ? Parliament is there to enact the wishes of the people not the wishes of the MPs. Even as a leaver I don't have an issue with parliament having the power to trigger A50 BUT it absolutely MUST follow the will of the people. That will said leave.
Let's also remember that some MPs are hoping for lucrative roles within the EU once their time here is up - I present the Kinnocks to you.