- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,801
- Thread starter
- #41
Yeah, but they weren't given lofty and questionable tokens of esteem that made them members of the Roman Empire....
Ex-Liverpool player Howard Gayle turns down MBE
- Thread starter Eeyore
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Yeah, but they weren't given lofty and questionable tokens of esteem that made them members of the Roman Empire....
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
Some of them did. A very few were granted their freedom and allowed to become Roman citizens.
- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,801
- Thread starter
- #43
They're having Wolverhampton Pride at Hilton Park Services this Saturday as most of them are still stuck there.
- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,801
- Thread starter
- #44
GT49er
Well-known member
They weren't given free health care, a good education (also free at the point of delivery too) and a good job playing football for a living either, were they? Of course, if they had been offered that, they should have turned it down on principle...................................
- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,801
- Thread starter
- #46
There was me thinking that it was their taxes that paid for their health care and children's education- as well as undeniable talent affording the job of footballer...
GT49er
Well-known member
You should probably try thinking less. It's not producing very good results. It often misses the point entirely.
1066familyman
Radio User
- Jan 15, 2008
- 15,185
And you should try looking into the history of Liverpool and Bristol and ask yourself a few questions.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 30,695
Political cronyism has so much to answer for.
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,470
Loads of people have turned down gongs.
David Bowie, Albert Finney., even Kipling.
When a black person does it the old "chip on the shoulder" line comes out - I've seen it commented underneath a couple of newspaper reports today.
You are allowed to turn down award and this man has reasons for doing so (which I fully understand due it's ridiculous name in 2016) so be it.
David Bowie, Albert Finney., even Kipling.
When a black person does it the old "chip on the shoulder" line comes out - I've seen it commented underneath a couple of newspaper reports today.
You are allowed to turn down award and this man has reasons for doing so (which I fully understand due it's ridiculous name in 2016) so be it.
- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,801
- Thread starter
- #51
I disagree, I think it's relevant. Actually, I rarely disagree with you. #HealthyDebate
I understand your point, although I don't quite agree with your comparison. The British Empire was not only a force of evil.
Yep, fair enough.
Happy to live, work and earn money in Britain though!
Are you suggesting that non-white Britons should keep their heads down, question nothing and be thankful for what they've got?
KingKev
Well-known member
It's a personal choice and good luck to him.
I would have personally thought more highly of him if he'd turned down the gong on the basis that there really should be no need for his work in this 'enlightened' age, rather than harking back to historical issues, but I also do get that the notion of Empire doesn't sit comfortably with a lot of people.
We won't change the 'empire' thing in honours, primarily because it forms part of our pomp & circumstance offering / unique selling point to our own people and the rest of the world. For some that will always create issues, but hey-ho.
I would have personally thought more highly of him if he'd turned down the gong on the basis that there really should be no need for his work in this 'enlightened' age, rather than harking back to historical issues, but I also do get that the notion of Empire doesn't sit comfortably with a lot of people.
We won't change the 'empire' thing in honours, primarily because it forms part of our pomp & circumstance offering / unique selling point to our own people and the rest of the world. For some that will always create issues, but hey-ho.
Apologies. I did't express myself very well. Its a little difficult. Personally I don't like our honours system. not because we have one, but (i) because it has so many levels of hierarchy (unlike the US system); what is the first thing two Englishmen do when washed up on a desert island? Create a class system. So last century (ii) because it is routinely abused by politicians, as it has been since Lloyd George and most certainly before then; this means it is a degrated and discredited system. And yet, lots of people are touched and feel justified if they earn an MBE or OBE for self sacrificing service, especially when the honour was neither anticipated or expected. On the whole I remain against honours; after all, just because something makes a lot of people happy doesn't mean it is good; I give you: an arm full of heroin; East Enders; following the the Palace.
In the present case, I do think it is a bit rich for this bloke to say or imply (I can't be arse to read the source text) that all honours venerate slavery or somesuch sweeping generalisation. It sounds like a product of the oft cited lazy scouse victimhood that cuases southern eyebrows to raise from time to time. And that is a view that I have had reinforced by my best mate, a true red scouser who saw the Beatles at the cavern more than 20 times. He is a Corbynite old socialist, born and raised near Anfield as well, so its not snootiness from Hoylake speaking here.
All the best
cheshunt seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 2,508
In the book about John Barnes' time at Liverpool by Dave Hill there is a section on how Gayle was treated and that he was virtually airbrushed out of the club's history. He may have grounds for some skepticism about the motivation and timing of this.
alfredmizen
Banned
- Mar 11, 2015
- 6,342
Ive added a little bit to make it a bit more truthful.
alfredmizen
Banned
- Mar 11, 2015
- 6,342
Either that or go somewhere that doesn't have a history that they claim exploited their ancestors.