[Politics] Brexit

[Hamilton]

Any quote involving the word 'Hitler' is bound to get people frothing at the mouth. I believe that the comparison with Hitler and Napoleon was not regarding their political method but rather their long term aims. It's highly convenient for the remain camp to become hysterical about this as the truth about the EU's main political aim is unpalatable to the majority of the British people. The gibbering response to the invocation of 'Hitler' is a smokescreen for the ultimate aim of total unification.

An aim which the UK does not have to pursue and yet can still remain within the EU as a positive force for trade and legislation.

Total unification will not happen. Too many member states do not want that.


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[Maldini]

It worries me even more that people think Boris Johnson is a good face for the leave campaign.

It worries me that someone no less than our Prime Minister has told us we will end up having WW3 if we vote leave.

I guess both camps don't have the best face.

 

[Maldini]

I know the Brexit camp are running out of ideas but to use Trump quotes.... Jesus.

Yes the irrelevant Trump who has just come from nowhere and wiped the floor with his opponents and now only one person stands in the way of him becoming President.

For the record I don't believe anyone outside of the UK should comment on the referendum.Obama and Trump included.

 

[Maldini]

Is there any evidence that EU migration hurts British low earners or reduces wages?

Just the other day I read

"Jonathan Wadsworth, one of the co-authors of the report, said: “The bottom line, which may surprise many people, is that EU immigration has not harmed the pay, jobs or public services enjoyed by Britons.

“In fact, for the most part it has likely made us better off. So far from EU immigration being a necessary evil that we pay to get access to the greater trade and foreign investment generated by the EU single market, immigration is at worse neutral and at best, another economic benefit.”

The study said there was little effect of EU immigration on inequality through reducing the pay and jobs of less skilled UK workers, while changes in wages and unemployment for less skilled UK-born workers show little correlation with changes in EU immigration.

“EU immigrants pay more in taxes than they use public services and therefore they help to reduce the budget deficit. Immigrants do not have a negative effect on local services such as education, health or social housing; nor do they have any effect on social instability as indicated by crime rates.”

hmm. http://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/may/11/eu-migrants-had-no-negative-effect-on-uk-wages-says-lse

Immigrants REPLACE tax that would have been paid by a British worker.They also arrive in this country needing to work to live.They don't have parents,a relative,a friend,a gran with whom they can live so they have to work so as a result they take anything and are willing to work for less.Hence they drive wages down and pay less tax.Some also send money back home so put less into the British economy.I know for sure in the Building sector they have driven prices down because I've had British builders moan to me about it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

For the record I don't believe anyone outside of the UK should comment on the referendum.Obama and Trump included.

What an absurd comment. Why not? What international affairs are you and I not allowed to comment on then?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

An aim which the UK does not have to pursue and yet can still remain within the EU as a positive force for trade and legislation.

Total unification will not happen. Too many member states do not want that.


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You will do as your told with the EU I'm afraid, that is the plan. Same flag, same currency, same army and moving all your laws and any democracy you have left away from the UK forever, along with open borders.

A vote to Remain, is a vote for everything I have said above.

 

[Hamilton]

You will do as your told with the EU I'm afraid, that is the plan. Same flag, same currency, same army and moving all your laws and any democracy you have left away from the UK forever, along with open borders.

A vote to Remain, is a vote for everything I have said above.

Same flag - not true

Same currency - not true

Same army - not true

Moving all your laws and any democracy you have left away from the UK - not true

Blimey, you'll be telling me the EU wants a unified football team soon.


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[Maldini]

What an absurd comment. Why not? What international affairs are you and I not allowed to comment on then?

Is it absurd because you don't agree with it? Of course they shouldn't comment it's not their business.

Do you think it's right the IMF is going to publish a report on June 17th trying to scare the British public.What business is it of theirs.They want the EU to stay intact so will publish a bias report to try and make that happen.It's no-ones business except for British people.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Same flag - not true

Same currency - not true

Same army - not true

Moving all your laws and any democracy you have left away from the UK - not true

Blimey, you'll be telling me the EU wants a unified football team soon.


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You can't have it both ways in this country. Your either IN fully or your OUT. As a remainer you should look to accepting the Euro and everything else I have mentioned, including complete open borders, if you think the EU is fit for purpose and good for your democracy.

 

[drew]

Immigrants REPLACE tax that would have been paid by a British worker.They also arrive in this country needing to work to live.They don't have parents,a relative,a friend,a gran with whom they can live so they have to work so as a result they take anything and are willing to work for less.Hence they drive wages down and pay less tax.Some also send money back home so put less into the British economy.I know for sure in the Building sector they have driven prices down because I've had British builders moan to me about it.

Emotive bullshit.

 

[drew]

It worries me that someone no less than our Prime Minister has told us we will end up having WW3 if we vote leave.

I guess both camps don't have the best face.

Where did he say we 'will' have WWIII if we leave?

 

[Maldini]

Emotive bullshit.

You know you've won the argument when the opposition can only hurl pathetic insults.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Obama told us we were at the back of the queue. China said they want us to be the gateway to Europe. Doesn't sound like they're very interested.

Obama won't be in power some others who theoretically could be .. say the opposite. China said they are keen to do trade deals with new partners and were fed up with the EU failing to advance negotiations year in, year out as they were trying to accommodate 28 different positions. Sound very interested to me.

 

[Hamilton]

You can't have it both ways in this country. Your either IN fully or your OUT. As a remainer you should look to accepting the Euro and everything else I have mentioned, including complete open borders, if you think the EU is fit for purpose and good for your democracy.

Again, all not true.

The UK has only one open border and that is with Ireland.

Ireland and the UK are not part of the Schengen agreement. We at liberty to check the passports of every individual entering this country and can refuse grounds of entry. That has always been the case and there is no plan to change that state of affairs.

 

[Hamilton]

Immigrants REPLACE tax that would have been paid by a British worker.They also arrive in this country needing to work to live.They don't have parents,a relative,a friend,a gran with whom they can live so they have to work so as a result they take anything and are willing to work for less.Hence they drive wages down and pay less tax.Some also send money back home so put less into the British economy.I know for sure in the Building sector they have driven prices down because I've had British builders moan to me about it.

Simply not true.

There is presently a surplus amount of open positions. There are more positions for employment than there are those out of work. Out of work includes those people looking for work and those not looking for work.

This supply and demand is what can drive down wages. More supply and wages go down.

Thankfully we have introduced the living wage to ensure that pay levels can not be deliberately reduced by unscrupulous employers. This ensures that people are able to earn a fair wage, and if they earn enough, pay tax on that wage.

The living wage was introduced by the UK government and voted through parliament by MPs. This will be the same parliament and MPs that the Leave campaign claim have no power due to the EU. An example of how the Leave campaign is built upon the empty rhetoric of sovereignty, democracy, control of borders and control of policy. We have these in abundance.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Is there any evidence that EU migration hurts British low earners or reduces wages?

Just the other day I read

"Jonathan Wadsworth, one of the co-authors of the report, said: “The bottom line, which may surprise many people, is that EU immigration has not harmed the pay, jobs or public services enjoyed by Britons.

“In fact, for the most part it has likely made us better off. So far from EU immigration being a necessary evil that we pay to get access to the greater trade and foreign investment generated by the EU single market, immigration is at worse neutral and at best, another economic benefit.”

The study said there was little effect of EU immigration on inequality through reducing the pay and jobs of less skilled UK workers, while changes in wages and unemployment for less skilled UK-born workers show little correlation with changes in EU immigration.

“EU immigrants pay more in taxes than they use public services and therefore they help to reduce the budget deficit. Immigrants do not have a negative effect on local services such as education, health or social housing; nor do they have any effect on social instability as indicated by crime rates.”

hmm. http://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/may/11/eu-migrants-had-no-negative-effect-on-uk-wages-says-lse

Yes there is evidence.

A 2015 Bank of England report focused on the impact of wages across different occupation groups. They found that the biggest impact of immigration was felt in the semi/unskilled services sector where a 10 percentage point rise in the proportion of immigrants in the sector was associated with a 2 percent reduction in wages. On average wages the Bank of England concluded that immigration has ‘a small, significant, negative impact’.

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/document/235

The overall net economic impact of mass immigration is disputed with many studies finding a significant cost.

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/fiscal-impact-immigration-uk

 

[Maldini]

Simply not true.

There is presently a surplus amount of open positions. There are more positions for employment than there are those out of work. Out of work includes those people looking for work and those not looking for work.

This supply and demand is what can drive down wages. More supply and wages go down.

Thankfully we have introduced the living wage to ensure that pay levels can not be deliberately reduced by unscrupulous employers. This ensures that people are able to earn a fair wage, and if they earn enough, pay tax on that wage.

The living wage was introduced by the UK government and voted through parliament by MPs. This will be the same parliament and MPs that the Leave campaign claim have no power due to the EU. An example of how the Leave campaign is built upon the empty rhetoric of sovereignty, democracy, control of borders and control of policy. We have these in abundance.

Fact:I have spoken to Builders who have been undercut by large amounts by eastern european builders.

Fact:I know of several italian workers who are paid cash in hand and below the min wage.One Deli in Brighton was paying £3.50 an hour.

If you don't think the UK has thousands of migrants working for below minimum then you need to get a grip.

 

[beorhthelm]

The living wage was introduced by the UK government and voted through parliament by MPs. This will be the same parliament and MPs that the Leave campaign claim have no power due to the EU. An example of how the Leave campaign is built upon the empty rhetoric of sovereignty, democracy, control of borders and control of policy. We have these in abundance.

would you like to comment upon the example of VAT changes, where our parliament can no longer set the rate it wishes but has to conform to EU harmonisation rules?

 

[Hamilton]

Fact:I have spoken to Builders who have been undercut by large amounts by eastern european builders.

Fact:I know of several italian workers who are paid cash in hand and below the min wage.One Deli in Brighton was paying £3.50 an hour.

If you don't think the UK has thousands of migrants working for below minimum then you need to get a grip.

Unfortunately, a vote to leave will not change any of this in ways that will prove satisfactory for you.

A vote to leave will suppress the economy and therefore see less business for you. This may affect unscrupulous builders in the UK, but it more than likely will not short-term. Long-term it will, but by then you may have gone bust as there will be a lot less cash in the economy.

The way to address these issues is through better policed employment legislation and business legislation. All possible.

As a scrupulous builder, I know that you will never have taken cash in hand for a job, and so you should be campaigning with our own MPs to take this issue more seriously. Unfortunately, the EU has no power in this area, but the UK government does - don't let it abdicate its responsibility.

 

[Bladders]

Same flag - not true

Same currency - not true

Same army - not true

Moving all your laws and any democracy you have left away from the UK - not true

Blimey, you'll be telling me the EU wants a unified football team soon.


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This is the trouble with remainers, you genuinely believe none of this is going to happen.

It is, it's the path the EU are on. Not in two years or five or maybe even ten but it is going to happen.

It's an open secret.

You think the EU just sits around in Brussels thinking their work here is done? Laughable.