Junior Doctors Strike

[El Presidente]

It's what it boils down to.....their beef at its core is that in return for a tasty 11% pay rise....they will have to enter a contract that means on a shift rota basis, they will have to work some weekends....

Most already work weekends though. The junior doctor budget has not increased by 11%, so someone is playing fast and loose with the statistics.

Could that person be the minister who was 'confused' by how to fill in an expense form, or considers Friday and Monday to be part of the weekend?

 

[Cheggers]

A handful of Tory millionaires dictating how society will operate to the vast majority of the population. This racket has been occurring since the 17th century. Don't expect it to end any time soon.

 

[Diablo]

What's stopping you from doing it then?

At 60 ? don`t think I`d qualify..

 

[Pavilionaire]

How many junior doctors go onto become consultants, couldn't really find anything on that, and what age do they generally turn consultant I wonder. Is £105k per year big money for a highly trained, highly specialised saver of lives? A cabinet minister gets £134k....Chief Executive of Brighton and Hove Council gets £150k+, you even get a £270k golden handshake with that post!!

I mentioned this person wasn't full-time and isn't famous or accountable to an electorate, and they seem to get leeway on how much private work they get to do outside of their NHS contract. I'm not saying they don't deserve their money but if you wish to pursue a career and work your way up to consultant there's few careers more lucrative than this.

 

[wellquickwoody]

100% agree.

But being a Harley mechanic he rarely gets to work with live animals, he only gets to brings them back from the dead!

 

[Phat Baz 68]

Absolutely, in every way and if any of us Nurses go on strike them too obviously.
Worked to the bone for a pittance of money.
Don't gey me wrong you don't become a Nurse or Doctor especially a Nurse for the money, it's a vocation, but the government etc know this
and latch onto that fact and use it to their advantage.
Piss taking Politicians and other various self indulgent thieving Government officials who wouldn't last a day working in a busy A&E Unit.
And who also would go mad if their luxurious lifestyle on expenses was completely withdrawn from their wages.
Why do they think there are fewer and fewer British men and women wanting to become Nurses.
60,70,80 hrs a week +
Disgusting.
Pay us all a decent wage or lose us.

 

[El Presidente]

there's few careers more lucrative than this.

There's few careers that are as demanding in terms of skills and knowledge required either, or which make such a positive contribution to society, I know I don't.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I mentioned this person wasn't full-time and isn't famous or accountable to an electorate, and they seem to get leeway on how much private work they get to do outside of their NHS contract. I'm not saying they don't deserve their money but if you wish to pursue a career and work your way up to consultant there's few careers more lucrative than this.

Well, you say you're not saying that, but you seemed to be suggesting that Junior Doctors should just accept what they have as they'll get the big bucks later in life - or have I misunderstood the implication from your previous post, maybe I have?

 

[El Presidente]

Why do they think there are fewer and fewer British men wanting to become Nurses.

I'm not sure how I choose to dress every Thursday night has anything to do with this discussion.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Absolutely, in every way and if any of us Nurses go on strike them too obviously.
Worked to the bone for a pittance of money.
Don't gey me wrong you don't become a Nurse or Doctor especially a Nurse for the money, it's a vocation, but the government etc know this
and latch onto that fact and use it to their advantage.
Piss taking Politicians and other various self indulgent thieving Government officials who wouldn't last a day working in a busy A&E Unit.
And who also would go mad if their luxurious lifestyle on expenses was completely withdrawn from their wages.
Why do they think there are fewer and fewer British men and women wanting to become Nurses.
60,70,80 hrs a week +
Disgusting.
Pay us all a decent wage or lose us.

Hear hear. Well said.

 

[heathgate]

As you have historically proved to be a bigoted and blinkered oaf.... I will just add that the heart of this issue surrounds the fact that weekend working was extras, now being proposed as part of their contract, formalised and of course attracting 11% premium. The core hour window is also being proposed as extending by 3 hours from 7am-7pm... to a 7am-10pm window.

They already work weekends, obviously another Tory idiot piping up

 

[heathgate]

Most already work weekends though. The junior doctor budget has not increased by 11%, so someone is playing fast and loose with the statistics.

Could that person be the minister who was 'confused' by how to fill in an expense form, or considers Friday and Monday to be part of the weekend?

Of course they do....but now instead of that being worked and paid for exclusively as extra 'voluntary' hours for the doctors, it is now as part of a shift rota... attracting a 11% premium.

There are obviously minutae that I have no visibility of, but I have a decent enough layman's view of the issues as presented across many news outlets.

I am irritated that the doctors keep trying to dress it up as a patient care issue....it's down to money and contracted weekend working.

 

[Drumstick]

I love the fact that people think once you've done a few extra years at uni your a dr. Then don't get sacked and your a consultant. You have to work hard at school to get GCSEs to get good a levels to get into the course then after years study you go out and continue to study for a decade at least before you start earning decent money.

You do awful hours, you don't eat, you have to watch a person die having tried to save them you tell their family. And then you do it again. Then someone moans at your as they have had to wait two hours to have an X-ray on their ouchy finger reviewed.

It's a vocation that isn't done for the money. Continue to screw over the doctors and we will be even more stuffed.

In my area two gp surgeries have shut as they can't get any more gp to take over after retirement of the other guy. Putting more pressure on the surrounding overfull other surgeries.

 

[heathgate]

In my area two gp surgeries have shut as they can't get any more gp to take over after retirement of the other guy. Putting more pressure on the surrounding overfull other surgeries.

That is simply because being a GP is seen as the least attractive of all the medical specialties that a newly qualified doctor can select. It has the least rewards both economically and professionally.

 

[Sorrel]

This is one of (many) issues where I certainly don't feel I know enough about the issues to make an absolute judgement as to which side is "right". And I'd be surprised if either side has a monopoly on the virtue of their cause.

 

[Drumstick]

That is simply because being a GP is seen as the least attractive of all the medical specialties that a newly qualified doctor can select. It has the least rewards both economically and professionally.

And what if the rest of the profession is seen that way?

They'll either move abroad where they're job is paid properly, or work for a new private system that pays them properly. The latter being an unexpected consequence I'm sure.

When it came to their banker friends it was very much if you want the best, pay the best. The NHS should be the same.

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

Of course they do....but now instead of that being worked and paid for exclusively as extra voluntary hours for the doctors, it is now as part of a shift rota... attracting a 11% premium.

There are obviously minutae that I have no visibility of, but I have a decent enough layman's view of the issues as presented across many news outlets.

I am irritated that the doctors keep trying to dress it up as a patient care issue....it's down to money and contracted weekend working.

Is not, and never was, voluntary. Night and weekend working part of contracted hours. The pay is just structured so that part of it reflects the proportion of work done during "unsociable hours". Historically this ranged from 20 to 100% extra but now is either 40 or 50% and actually very poorly reflects the unsociable hours element.

This element of pay is to be removed and replaced with an 11% increase in the base and hourly rates of pay for 10pm-7am and on Sundays.

Points of contention are including Saturday as a normal working week, and that there would be no real disincentive for trusts who breached working conditions by massively increasing hours overall.

Overtime (frequent and often expected) is unpaid and will remain that way.

 

[sir albion]

Absolutely support them...
The 11% rise actually = a loss on average of £4000 a year for each and everyone of them and it's another stitch up from the government.

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

That is simply because being a GP is seen as the least attractive of all the medical specialties that a newly qualified doctor can select. It has the least rewards both economically and professionally.

That is a relatively recent phenomenon. Only a few years ago gp training was oversubscribed as GP training is 3 years whilst it is a further 6-10 years for hospital specialties.

Over stretched gp services and government /press attempts to paint GPs as lazy and money grabbing have left people avoiding it. As well as the fact that much of gp work now is social care, form filling and targets.

 

[drew]

As you have historically proved to be a bigoted and blinkered oaf.... I will just add that the heart of this issue surrounds the fact that weekend working was extras, now being proposed as part of their contract, formalised and of course attracting 11% premium. The core hour window is also being proposed as extending by 3 hours from 7am-7pm... to a 7am-10pm window.

I thought there were several issues. Changing of the core hours is purely a money saving exercise by the government. I believe there are also changes to remove restrictions/financial penalties on trusts that overwork doctor which could easily lead to doctors having to work longer. Dr's who are on call will only get paid if they are called. So, you can't do anything in case you get called. You can't travel too far, you can't have drink so for giving up those sort of things, you get no compensation if the call doesn't come in. On top of this there is all this bullshit about the NHS 'becoming' a 7 day a week service. It is already. You have a heart attack on a Saturday, you get treated.