Spanish tippy tappy gets PULVERISED

[Notters]

The Netherlands is the actual country. Holland is a region in the Netherlands, but many people mistakenly call the country Holland (because it contains the major cities of Amsterdam and Rotterdam)

Not really mistakenly. Their fans sing "Holland, Holland" either way.

 

[Buffalo Seagull]

Not really mistakenly. Their fans sing "Holland, Holland" either way.

Well, the country only has one official name. And it's not Holland.

 

[Vegas Seagull]

Not really mistakenly. Their fans sing "Holland, Holland" either way.

And the Oranje chap in the from row decided to put Holland on his flag

 

[Vegas Seagull]

Well, the country only has one official name. And it's not Holland.

Dull now, do you insist on herring gull or wireless?

 

[Buffalo Seagull]

And the Oranje chap in the from row decided to put Holland on his flag

He may well be from Holland. Plenty of people write the names of different counties on English flags.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Having won the last World Cup and the last two Euros, I would say their 'tippy tappy bollox' has served them quite well.

Highly amusing that there are some idiots on here who think the style of play of one of the most successful international teams ever is suspect because they lose one match.

It is not infallible and once a coach has recognised what he is playing against it is very beatable. It is a simplistic strategy in keeping the ball and denying the opposition possession, but having been through three seasons of boredom at the Amex I would like to see a setup which is far more direct. In all games across the world from NFL, Rugby, Hockey and now football, its about speed not slow build up and not hanging on to the ball and going nowhere endlessly. Look at the current winners in football, they are quick and able to break speedily. In our case tippy tappy has been used to obscure the fact that we did not score goals and even led to our previous manager Gus saying' he didn't like coaching a team that couldn't score goals'. In his case, Sunderland were saved because they didn't play tippy tappy this year towards the end of the season. Too much idealogy in football and not enough goals for us.

 

[Goldstone76]

I wouldnt be writing them off just yet.

 

[Creaky]

Well, the country only has one official name. And it's not Holland.

And officially the people from there are Nederlanders but that doesn't stop them being called Dutch by English speakers

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Wouldn't say they were lucky. They managed to keep playing through all the physical violence and the constant whinging from the Dutch. Brazil couldn't keep their heads in the QFs was it? And lost.

But yeah, what happened with that Dutch team that year? They were horrible to watch. Now they've gone back to playing football thank god.

Thats why I said "a little lucky" I don't remember them being that physical up to the final, something weird happened ? I seem to remember reading something about them thinking they had to play that way to win in a final after losing to the Germans previously whatever it was it didn't work.

I think for Tika-Taka to work it needs the other side to be fairly submissive in its play - get two teams both playing Tika-Taka and its pretty boring if they are even and up against a team that is physical, fast or just even closes you down its pretty ineffective.


The dutch havent returned to Tika-taka based on last night, longballs or through passes and few errors to fast strong attackers did the Spanish.

 

[Tony Towner's Fridge]

Top European teams have now worked out how to play Barcelona and I think Holland have worked out how to play the similar Spanish national team tempo game. To be fair Holland were sensational last night and Van Gaal has shown in one fell swoop how to get a team prepared for the World Cup and be offensive to boot. To be fair though Iniesta and Xavi look a touch over the hill. There were a host of Spanish youngsters that Del Bosque could have taken; Iker Muniaín for example, great young talent. World Cups are seldom won with aging squads.

Great tournament so far, bar a few official mares and I can't wait to see if Roy has worked out how to play Italy.


TNBA

TTF

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

As someone said on Twitter..... The spanish have returned total football to the Dutch after a 10 year loan. There was significant late fee's attached though.

The Dutch weren't playing total football, though. It's not like we saw Robin Van Persie much in defence.

 

[kevo]

It is not infallible and once a coach has recognised what he is playing against it is very beatable. It is a simplistic strategy in keeping the ball and denying the opposition possession, but having been through three seasons of boredom at the Amex I would like to see a setup which is far more direct. In all games across the world from NFL, Rugby, Hockey and now football, its about speed not slow build up and not hanging on to the ball and going nowhere endlessly. Look at the current winners in football, they are quick and able to break speedily. In our case tippy tappy has been used to obscure the fact that we did not score goals and even led to our previous manager Gus saying' he didn't like coaching a team that couldn't score goals'. In his case, Sunderland were saved because they didn't play tippy tappy this year towards the end of the season. Too much idealogy in football and not enough goals for us.

I think that was true to a certain extent in the first half of the 2012-13 season - we certainly should have scored more given the the possession we had (remember the Bolton game?!) - but it changed when we signed Ulloa. All we needed was a decent striker to finish off the chances we were creating. We ended that season 5th highest scorers in the division (and scored more goals than Hull, who were promoted), so it's a bit of a myth to say we couldn't score goals.

Interesting that you say that we should try and play with more speed - that's exactly what Oscar said he was going to do and to a large extent it failed. Personally, I didn't find Gus's style boring at all - for a lot of the time, it was an absolute joy to watch. I loved seeing us outclass the opposition with our style and flair. Do we really want to start hoofing it up the pitch?

Holland definitely demonstrated how to counteract Spain's style and fair play to them - but that doesn't mean possession football is dead.

 

[W.C.]

Thats why I said "a little lucky" I don't remember them being that physical up to the final, something weird happened ? I seem to remember reading something about them thinking they had to play that way to win in a final after losing to the Germans previously whatever it was it didn't work.

I think for Tika-Taka to work it needs the other side to be fairly submissive in its play - get two teams both playing Tika-Taka and its pretty boring if they are even and up against a team that is physical, fast or just even closes you down its pretty ineffective.


The dutch havent returned to Tika-taka based on last night, longballs or through passes and few errors to fast strong attackers did the Spanish.

They played exactly the same against Brazil that WC. I remember watching it and getting pretty hacked off with them. Fouling but then getting in the refs face and disputing everything. Brazil reacted and had a man sent off. I said to friends at the time I couldn't believe the Dutch played like that and then they did exactly the same in the final. Last night they were completely different. None more so than Robben, chief whinger before. Got on with playing his brilliant football. The Van Gaal effect?

 

[W.C.]

I think that was true to a certain extent in the first half of the 2012-13 season - we certainly should have scored more given the the possession we had (remember the Bolton game?!) - but it changed when we signed Ulloa. All we needed was a decent striker to finish off the chances we were creating. We ended that season 5th highest scorers in the division (and scored more goals than Hull, who were promoted), so it's a bit of a myth to say we couldn't score goals.

Interesting that you say that we should try and play with more speed - that's exactly what Oscar said he was going to do and to a large extent it failed. Personally, I didn't find Gus's style boring at all - for a lot of the time, it was an absolute joy to watch. I loved seeing us outclass the opposition with our style and flair. Do we really want to start hoofing it up the pitch?

Holland definitely demonstrated how to counteract Spain's style and fair play to them - but that doesn't mean possession football is dead.

Very true.

And last night, Spain just fell apart 2nd half, whilst the Dutch were right on their game.

In the first half, the Spanish play up to their PK is beautiful. Classic Spain. Then there was Iniesta's ball that should have made it 2-0.

How different it all ended!

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Exactly. It is odd as well because Holland are not exactly a long ball team they play passing possession football as well. Isn't the tika-taka stuff an evolution of the Dutch total football anyway?

The fundamental idea of 'total football' was that, while all footballers excelled in particular parts of the field, all players were comfortable all over the pitch. So that a defender (such as Rudi Krol) could run with the ball out of defence into midfield, or an attacker could help out in defence, without breaking the shape of a team. The ethos was of fluidity and flexibility.

Now it is true that the Ajax and Netherlands sides of the 1970s also had other aspects to their play, such as holding onto possession, and compressing the playing an offside trap, and playing with style ad beauty, but none of these are the raison d'être of 'total football'.

 

[BigGully]

I still thought the Spanish were fantastic in spells in the first half, how they maintained possession when world class opponents were putting them under high pressure yet still found a way out was still very very impressive, but yes the 'hoof' guy's will have their moment.

It's a little like the Arsenal supporters that feel uneasy at their own slick style, somehow interpreting some great passing patterns as the reason Giroud or another doesnt shoot, cross or misses, it really wasnt the preceding high level technical play that was at fault.

Even last night, there was individual moments of brilliance and perhaps a goalkeeper nearing the end of a top class career that decided the outcome.

Obviously a 3-1 scoreline offered a platform for a bit of a rout and it might have been 6 or 7 by the end, but as has been mentioned it reminded me of the England Germany game.

It doesn't indicate to me that somehow it invalidates the Spanish style, what isnt there to like about high class technical possession football with great skill and awareness, it should be an aspiration for everyone, dont you think ??

 

[TSB]

Spain will probably get better as the tournament progresses as they will obviously qualify as runners up.

Reverse psychology?
If Chile draw against Spain and don't get mauled by the Dutch, Spain are out (assuming they don't put 6+ past Australia)

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Don't you need the fluid movement to create openings in the tika-taka style though? Especially if you play with the "false 9". It looks to me like they took the fluidity of total football and added on other concepts as well. Maybe evolved is too strong a phrase.

Yes, I think a tika-taka style is far more effective with players showing flexibility of positioning. The classic match between England and Hungary from 1953 is an obvious example, with England playing a rigid 3-2-2-3 (or W-M formation) and the Hungarians with what is now known as a 'false nine' to cause maximum damage in front of the England centre-back. What I was questioning was the way 'total football' seems to have become a catch-all term for 'possession football' or 'beautiful football', as it's possible to play effective possession football or stylish football without anything like the flexibility of the Dutch (e.g. Liverpool in the 1970s and 1980s).

 

[BensGrandad]

Yes, I think a tika-taka style is far more effective with players showing flexibility of positioning. The classic match between England and Hungary from 1953 is an obvious example, with England playing a rigid 3-2-2-3 (or W-M formation) and the Hungarians with what is now known as a 'false nine' to cause maximum damage in front of the England centre-back. What I was questioning was the way 'total football' seems to have become a catch-all term for 'possession football' or 'beautiful football', as it's possible to play effective possession football or stylish football without anything like the flexibility of the Dutch (e.g. Liverpool in the 1970s and 1980s).

In 1953 against the mighty Magyars we played in a 1, 2,3.5 standard English football line up as it was the only one we knew in those days

Goalkeeper, Right Back Left Back Right Half Centre Half Left Half, Right wing inside right centre forward inside left and left winger.numbered in that order 1 -11.

 

[desprateseagull]

some cracking goals.