Homophobia issues in football

[BLOCK F]

Yup,I know it is a forum for Brighton fans, but I am bored to death by all the uber examination on this thread.
Time to do other things.,

 

[The Large One]

Yup,I know it is a forum for Brighton fans, but I am bored to death by all the uber examination on this thread.
Time to do other things.,

OK thanks.

 

[Return of the Rev]

We have a guest on this week's show, Louise Englefield, representing the organisation Football v Homophobia.

In order to get a snapshot of fans' view - specifically Brighton fans' views, seeing as we seem to be the target of this kind of thing - can I ask... to what extent do you think homophobia is an issue in modern-day professional football?

I know we've had long debates about whether certain 'boyfriend' chanting is banter or abuse - and it seems to be that it depends on where you draw your own personal line, so I don't really want to steer us down that path. However, I'd ask does this sort of thing bother you? Are punishments for offenders too lenient, too harsh or about right? Should it be deemed an offence?

I'm also thinking in terms of why more players haven't come out (I've no idea whether there are any homosexual or bi-sexual men playing professional football, but I would say the law of averages states there ought to be.) What would be stopping them coming out? Is there an issue at boardroom or bootroom level?

Or anything else you care to add along these lines. I just want to build up a picture of fellow fans' views to take into the show.

Cheers in advance.

I find the terms used for the learning disability community more of a concern,even from some posters who should know better

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

I don't buy that at all, and I don't think any of that would happen. Do you honestly believe Albion fans would abuse any Albion player who came out?

The silence is more to do with the legacy of Justin Fashanu and not wanting to be the first to announce it.

And the 'legacy' of Justin Fashanu is...?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A change in the law does not bring about a change in culture. But as I have said before, no-one can give me a uniform definition of what they understand homophobia to be anyway, because it has so many interpretations when we talk about terrace chants.

Perceptions and beliefs can be changed by education. HIV/Aids are not a predominantly gay diseases and homosexuals are not paedophiles. Yet, we get both in abuse from opposing fans, not via chants I might add, but examples have been given by our fans when outside of grounds.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Perceptions and beliefs can be changed by education. HIV/Aids are not a predominantly gay diseases and homosexuals are not paedophiles. Yet, we get both in abuse from opposing fans, not via chants I might add, but examples have been given by our fans when outside of grounds.

That's not entirely true. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20526380

The abuse outside grounds is tricky, is it actually true homophbic abuse or is it just football tribalism? If Brighton wasn't associated with gay people would the perpetrators just find the next best thing to abuse us about. The answer is probably yes.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That's not entirely true. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20526380

I looked up the global figures as opposed to the UK figures.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yup,I know it is a forum for Brighton fans, but I am bored to death by all the uber examination on this thread.
Time to do other things.,

uber examination in a chat room....whatever next?

 

[The Large One]

And the 'legacy' of Justin Fashanu is...?

The concerns surrounding coming out.

If you think that Justin not being worried about coming out is the reason any gay footballer should come out, again I'd suggest naivety on your part. Justin may or may not (irrespective of what his 'biographer' said) have been concerned about the grief he got, but it's an issue that he was a troubled individual on many levels, his sexuality being one. He didn't even get the support of all of his family.

If Justin was still here to tell the tale, I'm sure we'd be much further down the line, but to some (rightly or wrongly) Justin serves less as an inspirational figurehead and more as a cautionary tale.

Again, I'd say to you that - somewhat appallingly - society still needs to move further on.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

The concerns surrounding coming out.

If you think that Justin not being worried about coming out is the reason any gay footballer should come out, again I'd suggest naivety on your part. Justin may or may not (irrespective of what his 'biographer' said) have been concerned about the grief he got, but it's an issue that he was a troubled individual on many levels, his sexuality being one. He didn't even get the support of all of his family.

If Justin was still here to tell the tale, I'm sure we'd be much further down the line, but to some (rightly or wrongly) Justin serves less as an inspirational figurehead and more as a cautionary tale.

Again, I'd say to you that - somewhat appallingly - society still needs to move further on.

Of course Fashanu had concerns about coming out. I've not suggested otherwise. He risked being spurned being spurned by sections of the black community, his church and religion, in addition to concern over how friends, family, supporters, clubs and players would take the news. The trigger to him coming out was as much about a tabloid about to break the story if he didn't break it first (and there was an opportunity to earn some money from selling his exclusive) as any grander motive.

That said, having come out, he successfully won over his team mates and supporters at the three league clubs he played at. The 'legacy' is as nowhere near as dire as is often implied.

 

[Davemania]

And there we have it in a nutshell. There isn't a problem mainly because players have to hide it. We're miles away from equality in football. Miles.

I was thinking more about homophobic chanting from fans in light of the recent convictions for two Derby fans i think and the general chants Brighton fans receive. It really not as big a deal as hysterical types would like to make out. On this line of thinking any Brighton fan who has sung You dirty nothern *******s or sheepshaggers to Welsh fans should be banned also, just ban everyone to be safe that not a single slightly prejudice comment or remark is ever uttered in public again even if it is in jest. Amognst players its a problem if any gay footballers are too embarrased to openly admit these things with their peers. It would be too much if they were singled out and ridiculed for coming out by fans through chants but i dont think that would happen anyway. Its the peer group that is the problem. Doesnt help either that theres communal baths after games, just a bit of an awkward situation in reality

 

[Billy the Fish]

I looked up the global figures as opposed to the UK figures.

I rekon Africa probably evens up the figures. In western countries it's mostly associated with gay men because of their promiscuity and also smack heads who share needles. In africa they're all riddled with it, even if you were a gay man unfortunate enough to have contracted HIV it's fair to say the locals would probably kill you before the bug did.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I was thinking more about homophobic chanting from fans in light of the recent convictions for two Derby fans i think and the general chants Brighton fans receive.

The two Derby fans were not arrested, pleaded guilty to, and banned for 3 years, for chanting.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I rekon Africa probably evens up the figures. In western countries it's mostly associated with gay men because of their promiscuity and also smack heads who share needles. In africa they're all riddled with it, even if you were a gay man unfortunate enough to have contracted HIV it's fair to say the locals would probably kill you before the bug did.

Oh dear.

 

[symyjym]

I am amazed by the fascination by some comments on here being so interested in a player’s sexuality, and in many ways now demanding that they come out so to know their orientation.

In fact, this morbid curiosity about players sexuality and singling them out is in itself passive aggressive homophobia.

 

[cunning fergus]

My point was very simple. It was to illustrate that, contrary to what Husty had suggested, violent crimes are committed against LGBT people, in Brighton, still. These are "hate crimes", because the motivation of the perpetrators is the sexual orientation of the chosen victims.

But violent crimes are committed against everyone in Brighton, straight or gay by people straight or gay?

I note Chris Cooke (Chairman of the Brighton LGBT) said St James St was becoming a "no go area"..............I reckon "men" will be violent whether they have had 15 pints of lager or 15 Pina Coladas.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/10/3...calls-for-increased-security-in-gay-district/

Given the demographics in that area of Brighton, it must be reasonable to assume there are some gay men involved in these violent incidents. Get over it.

 

[The Large One]

But violent crimes are committed against everyone in Brighton, straight or gay by people straight or gay?

I note Chris Cooke (Chairman of the Brighton LGBT) said St James St was becoming a "no go area"..............I reckon "men" will be violent whether they have had 15 pints of lager or 15 Pina Coladas.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/10/3...calls-for-increased-security-in-gay-district/

Given the demographics in that area of Brighton, it must be reasonable to assume there are some gay men involved in these violent incidents. Get over it.

What does 'get over it' mean?

 

[Buzzer]

I think St James St has its own particular problems because of the number of homeless hostels that have sprung up around there in the last couple of years. I read somewhere that there are 7 now in St James Street and with the 24 hour off licences (well...it seems like that) this is what is making St James Street a no-go area.

I've certainly noticed that the street drinkers around that area has increased dramatically - esp women street drinkers and they are becoming increasingly aggressive (men and women). I think this human detritus must make up a significant proportion of complaints.

 

[BLOCK F]

uber examination in a chat room....whatever next?

I don't know;you tell me.

 

[cunning fergus]

What does 'get over it' mean?

Are you Ted Rogers?