This government is in tatters, u-turn after u-turn. Are they leading the country any more?

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yes, he led us into Iraq, didn't he.

True, and I disagree with this.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Whatever you might think of Blair at least he was a leader.

What a horrible man. And I also hate f&*&%% Labour.
Tony Blair widens his web via the stock markets - Telegraph

 

[ROSM]

It seems so, they dont realise what they're in for if they elect a labour government with fuckall money to spunk or the power to borrow any.

The national debt was significantly less under labour than it is now. And with the exceptional elements of bank bailouts taken out, it was less than they inherited in 1997 right up to the impacts if the credit crunch in 2009.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't recall you being so vociferous about this when Ed Balls, Alan Johnson, Ruth Kelly or David Blunkett held the equivalent post. And how do you feel about Stephen Twigg, Gove's opposite number in the Labour Party? Are you as cross that Labour have chosen someone with absolutely no experience of anything other than party activism?

Twigg was president of the National Union of Students. Does this count?

 

[ROSM]

I don't recall you being so vociferous about this when Ed Balls, Alan Johnson, Ruth Kelly or David Blunkett held the equivalent post. And how do you feel about Stephen Twigg, Gove's opposite number in the Labour Party? Are you as cross that Labour have chosen someone with absolutely no experience of anything other than party activism?

That's a very fair point.

 

[Notters]

Very much this, though it's somewhat less disturbing than the fact that only ONE MP has a background in science. But then only egotistical maniacs would want to be MPs in the present system.

 

[terryberry1]

What a horrible man. And I also hate f&*&%% Labour.
Tony Blair widens his web via the stock markets - Telegraph

The finest leader of our generation. Hero.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Good Lord. Has everyone forgotten the last 10 years under Blair/Brown already

It seems so. One Nation is all you need to say to become the future Prime Minister.

- - - Updated - - -

The finest leader of our generation. Hero.

Are you joking lol. His party and policies have ruined this country.

 

[Buzzer]

Twigg was president of the National Union of Students. Does this count?

Not really. I've been looking at the Green Party's education spokespersons and as far as I can see Rachel Fryer is a professional pianist who does part-time teaching and Alison Johnstone, the Scottish spokesperson appears to have been a full-time assistant to an MSP whose brief never took him near education. I wonder if The Large One can help fill in the gaps here. Surely his beloved Greens would have education experts as spokespersons, wouldn't they?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Not really. I've been looking at the Green Party's education spokespersons and as far as I can see Rachel Fryer is a professional pianist who does part-time teaching and Alison Johnstone, the Scottish spokesperson appears to have been a full-time assistant to an MSP whose brief never took him near education. I wonder if The Large One can help fill in the gaps here. Surely his beloved Greens would have education experts as spokespersons, wouldn't they?

And the Greens have Jason Kitcat running the council when in reality he'd struggle to run a bath !

 

[CheeseRolls]

Will someone please at least attempt to answer the question in the affirmative.

Are there any examples of leadership ?
are there any policies that they are having some success in implementing ?
Is there one specific area where they are not disappearing up their own backsides ?
If they are voted out at the next general election what will be their legacy ?

 

[Buzzer]

Gove's surname upsets me. It looks like it's missing a few letters and for that reason alone I'd get rid.

 

[The Large One]

I don't recall you being so vociferous about this when Ed Balls, Alan Johnson, Ruth Kelly or David Blunkett held the equivalent post. And how do you feel about Stephen Twigg, Gove's opposite number in the Labour Party? Are you as cross that Labour have chosen someone with absolutely no experience of anything other than party activism?

While today's news is mostly about secondary school education, I am answering this from the standpoint of primary school education. So I answer with my partner's school in mind (happy now, bushy?).

I know today's story is about eBacc, but Gove also intends to bring in 'core knowledge' teaching, at the expense of all other kinds of education. Under Gove's ideas for teaching methods, her school wouldn't stand a chance. Her learning philosophy is completely at odds with Gove's - and yet he would wish to impose this upon her school, especially as she is in the throes of going for Free School Status. She is doing this with a view (more a hope) that Gove's philosophy not being imposed. I hope for her sake it's not wishful thinking on her part, and they're not going to.

The point is, when Labour brought in things like 'numeracy and literacy hour', Labour didn't impose this kind of stuff on her, so there wasn't anything to get so cross about. However, it is quite right that someone with education experience ought to be Education Secretary.

Similarly, Labour brought in credits in order to have a programme of sending every 3-4 year old to school / nursery. From my partner's point of view, that was a good thing. I appreciate that's not about the nature of the styles of education, more about funding and social improvement.

Similarly, while the previous DfES allowed her in 2004 to join the state system, the then Labour council in Brighton & Hove blocked it for reasons which didn't stand up, and I was quite vociferous about it (though most others got completely bored of it).

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

I haven't spun anything - I agree; piss poor governing. If they are going to suggest revolutionary changes to the educational system, at least have the balls to carry them through and not let leftie spin whipping the country up into a frenzy, change anything.

Revolutionary changes may be eneded (nay, ARE needed) but the bac was never the answer. Anyone in education will tell you they were waiting for politicos who know nothing about education to finally come to their senses on this one.

 

[Buzzer]

I understand all that TLO. Well, I say understand...I don't really have much of an interest in it so I tend to skim-read but the point I was making (that you sort of answered and sort of didn't) was that why are you so cross specifically about Gove having no education experience? It happens all the time in politics. And are you as cross about the Green Party making similar appointments?

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Good Lord. Has everyone forgotten the last 10 years under Blair/Brown already

Nothing to do with it. Change needed just not a bac. And I really dont want THIS government making similar mistakes to those made by Blair and Brown.

 

[sten_super]

I understand all that TLO. Well, I say understand...I don't really have much of an interest in it so I tend to skim-read but the point I was making (that you sort of answered and sort of didn't) was that why are you so cross specifically about Gove having no education experience? It happens all the time in politics. And are you as cross about the Green Party making similar appointments?

I think the answer here (from being married to a teacher) is that
i) he's attempting to change much more than most previous secretaries have
ii) he's very clearly not listening to his advisers or anyone at the DfE, let alone people on the ground in schools
iii) he comes across as a particularly odious slimeball

To me, a decent minister should (or rather, would - in an ideal world politics wouldn't come into it) be attempting to introduce adjustments to existing policy in line with his parties beliefs that move policy in a general direction, and should take advice from experts (both in his department and in the industry writ large) to moderate and adjust these on the basis of evidence. Gove has been attempting to force through his own personal beliefs with no evidence base or expert support at all.

 

[The Large One]

I understand all that TLO. Well, I say understand...I don't really have much of an interest in it so I tend to skim-read but the point I was making (that you sort of answered and sort of didn't) was that why are you so cross specifically about Gove having no education experience? It happens all the time in politics. And are you as cross about the Green Party making similar appointments?

One could say that cartoon could be about any Education Secretary without similar experience.

It's pertinent to Gove because he is so at odds with teachers, parents and his own education experts and advisors and wishes to pursue his own agenda - one which so many are stating (and I include my partner's view) is regressive and not for the benefit of education as a whole. Who knows? He could be right, and everyone else is wrong - but he hasn't really provided any evidence to state that.

It's not about party political beliefs - it's about him specifically. The next Tory Education Secretary might completely reverse what he's been trying to impose.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

If you really want to understand this, watch:

Sir Ken Robinson: Do schools kill creativity? - YouTube

This twenty minute seminar has changed the face of how educationalists see education and even if Cameron and Gove arent getting on board, the US are so you can bet your bottom dollar its coming.

Watch and see if it bares any resemblance to Gove's ideas.

 

[beorhthelm]

i like Gove, there i said it. he get stuff done, doesnt fanny around and batters the opposition and journo's. too few politicians are unable to play a straight bat, last one to spring to mind was Darling.

why is it when he acknowledges a plan isnt going to work out, its too ambitious and needs to be scaled back, its a U-turn? the policy direction hasnt changed, they simply arent going to introduce a new certificate (good idea, might as well stick with a reformed GCSE). and they've obviously had legal advice about the EU problems with procurement (and i see alot of the anti voices here are pro-EU). Then theres the heart of the matter, the Liberals were not happy to push through so many changes. compromise. we are having a go at government for making compromise and listening to objections.

The national debt was significantly less under labour than it is now. And with the exceptional elements of bank bailouts taken out, it was less than they inherited in 1997 right up to the impacts if the credit crunch in 2009.

the debt was lower but rising, the deficit was growing and was budgeted to continue growing as spending accelerated and revenues in declinded. budget are for spending a year or two (or more) ahead and Brown spent everything he didnt have. shame people forget that. no boom or bust remember? (Balls idea that slogan btw)