France to ban the Burqa?

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

From todays Telegraph:

How do they propose enforcing this?

"In a speech at the Palace of Versailles, Mr Sarkozy said that the head-to-toe Islamic garment for women was not a symbol of religion but a sign of subservience for women.

"The burka is not a sign of religion, it is a sign of subservience," he told members of both parliamentary houses gathered for his speech.

His comments follow an appeal last week by 65 French MPs for a parliamentary commission to examine whether Muslim women who cover themselves fully in public undermine the secular tradition in France as well as women's rights.

The MPs represent parties ranging from the Communists to Mr Sarkozy's UMP.

The call won instant support from members of Mr Sarkozy's centre-Right government but was opposed by the Socialists, the main opposition party.

The French parliament is expected to consider both the burqa, where the eyes are covered by a fabric mesh, and the niqab, which has an eye slit.

France's Muslim Council said last week that the proposal "stigmatised" Islam.

In 2004, the country passed a controversial law forbidding any conspicuous religion symbols from state schools, including veils, which are also banned in government offices. "

 

[The Spanish]

dingalingalingaling!


The hare's running!

 

[Don Quixote]

Nice one Frenchies, expect some sort of terrorist attack though now. We should have done this ages ago but have probably been too "scared".

 

[Bwian]

Damn-I have to go and do some work. This could run for a day or two though...

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

What will the Muslim transvestities do now? they'll have to go out looking like freaks like ours do.

 

[adrian29uk]

My girlfriend has asked some of the kids at their school if they are told to where their head scarfs. Nearly all of them say, it's their personal choice and they are not forced by their families to do this.

So I think its a sign of the times where things are slowly becoming more open, which is a good thing. Unfortunately all Muslims get painted with the same brush, this is due to the media painting a bad picture and of course a few mindless idiots who have hate against our way of life.

Funny thing is, the people against us already live in this country.

 

[sten_super]

The BBC News article suggests that basically they are able to take this stance because they are a secular state, so they can take a stance against anything which they feel splits society along religious lines. Perhaps we need a similar set of laws (do we already have them?).

 

[house your seagull]

i think they have a point, what would the suffergettes think after all their work and sacrifices? we still have gender inequality issues in this country but so much has moved on, at what point do we tolerate another culture's behaviour when we are supposed to find sexism abhorrent?

however - any liberating movements in this country were perhaps the stepping stones for a wider, more holistic, freedom of choice scenario which we kind of enjoy now, one which let people wear what they want ... right?

the french know that cigarettes kill people, yet they won't ban them.

what is the french socialist party's response to this? i can't be bothered to look.

the french are bound by the whole liberty, egality and fraternity on both sides of their political spectrum, and if the wearing of these garments is even implicitly linked to a quite nasty and draconian manifestation of gender inequality than they should stick to their principals and do it.

i think they might get bombed though.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Are Nuns in France banned from wearing their wimples then?

 

[The Spanish]

The BBC News article suggests that basically they are able to take this stance because they are a secular state, so they can take a stance against anything which they feel splits society along religious lines. Perhaps we need a similar set of laws (do we already have them?).

We are a multicultural state. It may not be constitutionally written but it has been repeated ad nauseam for the last 15 years or so, as The Last Word in Sophistication and Human Civilisation, rather than a crap cop out paper over the cracks and avoid the question coping mechanism.

It has been thoroughly discredited in the eyes of the majority of the British puiblic as the Emperors New Clothes that it is. But it's still the party line


Do you remember how self congratulatory the British press and BBC were when the French were suffering inner city riots. 'Oh how our model is so much better than the silly French, everyone gets on like a house on fire here', was the tone of the BBC and commentators.

Then BOOM. Bodies splattered all over the streets of London.

 

[User removed 4]

how long till bushy pipes up with some hate filled rubbish eh?

 

[Common as Mook]

Freedom of choice innit.

 

[sten_super]

We are a multicultural state. It may not be constitutionally written but it has been repeated ad nauseam for the last 15 years or so, as The Last Word in Sophistication and Human Civilisation, rather than a crap cop out paper over the cracks and avoid the question coping mechanism.

I have no problem with the idea of an multicultural state, the problem is how you do it and promote integration, and avoid the situation that we have in some parts of the country of seperation of cultures. However the French haven't got it completely nailed either; just look at the race/cultual problems they continue to have.

I like the secular model; although it probably helps that I'm agnostic, I can see it causing a problem for the majority that have a religion.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Freedom of choice innit.[/QUOTE

or not it would seem.

 

[User removed 4]

i find it completely alien to our culture , it looks very sinister and it isnt a requirement for muslim women to wear it, truth be told , a lot of muslim women wear it to put two fingers up to our society, ive been told this by muslim women themselves.

 

[looney]

Its symbolic of a traditionalist islam that advocates oppressing non beleivers, among other things.

So can be seen as inciting hostility, no different from wearing a SS Uniform in public, free choice, expression, multi-culti blah blah blah..

Ask either questions about Jews, Queers etc and you would get similar responses generally.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

i find it completely alien to our culture , it looks very sinister and it isnt a requirement for muslim women to wear it, truth be told , a lot of muslim women wear it to put two fingers up to our society, ive been told this by muslim women themselves.

How did you get involved in that conversation pray tell?

Bushy: "So..whats with the outfit then?"

Mohammedan: "I wear it to insult the Infidels! One day we will claim this whole place for the people of Allah mwahahaha!"

 

[The Spanish]

Bushy mate get yourself down Cable Street at lunchtime. There is nothing to fear, everyone is having one big party, pearly kings, burkas and rasta hats all together in perfect harmony. All swapping pie and mash for samosas and curry goat.

Its great. At least it is if you are on the 17.06 back from Victoria.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Its symbolic of a traditionalist islam that advocates oppressing non beleivers, among other things.

So can be seen as inciting hostility, no different from wearing a SS Uniform in public, free choice, expression, multi-culti blah blah blah..

Ask either questions about Jews, Queers etc and you would get similar responses generally.

Like I said earlier, are Jews banned from the Black hat and ringlet look in France? are Sikks banned from Turban wearing?

If you demand that only Muslims stop wearing symbols of faith then its a rocky road ahead.

*edit* The SS uniform analogy is flawed unless Nazis are now classed as a religious group rather than a bunch of Murdering bigots.

 

[adrian29uk]

Bushy mate get yourself down Cable Street at lunchtime. There is nothing to fear, everyone is having one big party, pearly kings, burkas and rasta hats all together in perfect harmony. All swapping pie and mash for samosas and curry goat.

Its great. At least it is if you are on the 17.06 back from Victoria.

Wish the same could be said for Luton. It seems to me people don't mix.