[News] The World at War

[1066familyman]

Whilst I do not condone what Israel has done in Iran. The thought of Iran having nuclear weapons is frankly terrifying to me.

I'm always curious about this view of Iran.

To date, Iran hasn't invaded a single nation, aside from Iraq during the Iran - Iraq war, which Iraq started.

Yet USA and it's allies (mainly us) have invaded numerous nations over a long period of time. It's no wonder really that Iran would seek to defend itself from Imperalist forces by developing a nuclear capability.

I think Western propaganda has done a pretty good job of convincing us that nations such as Iran and North Korea are the real threat to global peace, when in fact, if we look at history, the very opposite is true.

Apologies Zeberdi if this post is too political, but you can't have a thread on the world at war and not get political, surely?

 

[Zeberdi]

I'm always curious about this view of Iran.

To date, Iran hasn't invaded a single nation, aside from Iraq during the Iran - Iraq war, which Iraq started.

Yet USA and it's allies (mainly us) have invaded numerous nations over a long period of time. It's no wonder really that Iran would seek to defend itself from Imperalist forces by developing a nuclear capability.

I think Western propaganda has done a pretty good job of convincing us that nations such as Iran and North Korea are the real threat to global peace, when in fact, if we look at history, the very opposite is true.

Apologies Zeberdi if this post is too political, but you can't have a thread on the world at war and not get political, surely?

I think my OP was misinterpreted- I meant not the sort of acrimonious binfests that typified the previous threads that were closed on this topic.

Of course political comments are more than ok with the mods and unavoidable if we are talking about current conflicts - edited my OP so hopefully more clear.

I also agree with much of what you say. Prior to the Nuclear Deal being shredded, there was every sign that Iran was complying with their own moratorium on proliferation and UN inspectors had no evidence they had developed weapons grade uranium in enough quantities to arm nuclear missiles.

(Ayatollah Khamenei, who succeeded Khomeini in 1989, issued a fatwa (religious edict) that explicitly prohibited the production and use of nuclear weapons)

That said - who knows? Even Israel
has not openly declared they have nuclear weapons but it’s widely acknowledged they have.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I'm always curious about this view of Iran.

To date, Iran hasn't invaded a single nation, aside from Iraq during the Iran - Iraq war, which Iraq started.

It's their proxy wars and sponsored terrorism that is the problem allied to the fact that these fundamentalists believe paradise is waiting for them if they kill in the name of Islam.

 

[Flounce]

I'm always curious about this view of Iran.

To date, Iran hasn't invaded a single nation, aside from Iraq during the Iran - Iraq war, which Iraq started.

Yet USA and it's allies (mainly us) have invaded numerous nations over a long period of time. It's no wonder really that Iran would seek to defend itself from Imperalist forces by developing a nuclear capability.

I think Western propaganda has done a pretty good job of convincing us that nations such as Iran and North Korea are the real threat to global peace, when in fact, if we look at history, the very opposite is true.

Apologies Zeberdi if this post is too political, but you can't have a thread on the world at war and not get political, surely?

Call me simplistic/brainwashed but I think Iran having nuclear capability is likely to end in the use of the weapons between Israel and Iran. I am in no way a supporter of what Israel is doing in the Middle East either, it’s despicable and incredibly tragic and depressing.

 

[1066familyman]

It's their proxy wars and sponsored terrorism that is the problem allied to the fact that these fundamentalists believe paradise is waiting for them if they kill in the name of Islam.

Oh yes, the West doesn't engage in proxy wars or state sponsored terrorism. Phew!, that's a relief.

 

[abc]

Are you terrified that Israel has nuclear weapons given they’ve just shredded 50,000 civilians?

And supporters of Israel are so nuts they regularly smear and threaten the owners of NSC to silence free speech. Do they sound like the good guys?

Anyone having nuclear weapons is pretty terrifying to be fair.

Perhaps the most important thing is no one new has them. I don’t care if that’s ’unfair’ as the more countries that have them the greater the chance of them being used one day.

China, Trump’s US, North Korea, Israel, Russia…. adding Iran to the list just compounds the likelihood of Armageddon

 

[Chicken Run]

Are you terrified that Israel has nuclear weapons given they’ve just shredded 50,000 civilians?

And supporters of Israel are so nuts they regularly smear and threaten the owners of NSC to silence free speech. Do they sound like the good guys?

I certainly don’t think so, for too long all of us in the West have poked our noses into overseas affairs and then wonder why we are being overrun with Refugees fleeing the shitfest that we leave behind, i’ve said it before if we hadn’t sent Soldiers in to Iraq & Afginstan and left them well alone i wonder if we’d see so many refugees heading west

 

[abc]

Oh yes, the West doesn't engage in proxy wars or state sponsored terrorism. Phew!, that's a relief.

Not taking sides here, but the Netflix series ‘Turning Point’ is a fascinating documentary exploration of how the US tried to ‘manage’ world affairs during the Cold War. They certainly don’t come out looking any better than the Soviet Union or for that matter some of the dictatorial regimes of today

 

[Ike and Tina Burner]

It's no wonder really that Iran would seek to defend itself from Imperalist forces by developing a nuclear capability.

Iran's regime is objectively evil. The continuance of their theocracy is a stain on humanity. I'm not having this "liberal Western democracies are actually the bad guys" rubbish.

 

[pigmanovich]

It's their proxy wars and sponsored terrorism that is the problem allied to the fact that these fundamentalists believe paradise is waiting for them if they kill in the name of Islam.

Getting your fundamentalists mixed up there - Iran is hardly a death cult a la ISIS, its foreign policy is less driven by ideology than its system of government would suggest.

 

[Zeberdi]

Iran's regime is objectively evil. The continuance of their theocracy is a stain on humanity. I'm not having this "liberal Western democracies are actually the bad guys" rubbish.

Not disagreeing but ’dictatorship’ in itself as @Hugo Rune pointed out, isn’t necessarily the cause of international conflicts or escalating exchanges - Israel under Netanyahu is also a Theocracy - It’s how these regimes (because Iran isn’t the only one round the globe) impact on American interests which seems to be the determinant factor of how dangerous they are.

Clearly both Israel and the US want regime change - Israel has openly admitted that and the US will back them.

This is a great site btw for tracking global conflicts

| CFR Interactives

The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is an independent, nonpartisan member organization, think tank, and publisher.

www.cfr.org

 

[rogersix]

Iran's regime is objectively evil. The continuance of their theocracy is a stain on humanity. I'm not having this "liberal Western democracies are actually the bad guys" rubbish.

are you aware of the collapse of democracy in iran in the 50's?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I agree re. probably valuing life more or perhaps expectancies have brought a sense of entitlement? - maybe given the advance of modern medicine there’s the expectancy we should all live 8 or 9 decades. In 1916, it was around 50.

Western Countries are a lot more diverse now and cosmopolitan. People on NSC have relatives in Ukraine, Israel and America among other Countries so we are a lot more vested in wars (and civil unrest) taking place on the other side of the World now even when our own forces aren’t directly involved.


edit - why anyone on NSC thinks a thread highlighting violent conflict is funny beggars belief

Life expectancy is an average, and in 1916, there was a lot of infant mortlaity. My grandparents had 6 children but only 4 survived. Once you lived to adulthood you could expect to live to 70 or 80, (apart from wars).

 

[Zeberdi]

Life expectancy is an average, and in 1916, there was a lot of infant mortlaity. My grandparents had 6 children but only 4 survived. Once you lived to adulthood you could expect to live to 70 or 80, (apart from wars).

That makes sense - the data I just checked says ‘from birth’.

 

[dangull]

How come nobody stopped North Korea from obtaining nuclear weapons? Unlike Iran, Iraq, Libya and anyone else considered the bad guys, nobody is threatening them with any carpet bombing.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Starmer repeats call for de-escalation, moves jets to Middle East

UK moves jets to Middle East as Starmer refuses to rule out defending Israel

Military assets to provide ‘contingency support’ as PM repeats call for de-escalation after Iran’s retaliatory strikes

www.theguardian.com

 

[pay no mind]

So do you think the news suggests the World is now in a downward spiral state of civil and foreign conflict or not - or have you just come here to make a nuisance of yourself?

Be a love and pop me on ignore.

 

[Seagull's Return]

I hope this falls on the right side of the OP’s laudable “no politics” request, I’m 100% behind it. Anyway, here we go… A few weeks ago, it was India and Pakistan we were all expecting to kick off The Ultimate Nuclear Binfest; now it’s Israel and Iran. None of those 4 states is what I would call notably “reasonable”, and all strike me as irresponsible, though to be fair Israel is winning that particular contest at the moment.

Despite all this, I’m concerned about Putin giving NATO’s Article 5 a thorough testing when the US have finally sold Ukraine down the river, and the rest of Europe too. I doubt that Putin expects a global nuclear holocaust in return for a bit of (re)invading, and I reckon he’s probably right. Although I appreciate there are lots of NATO axes to be ground in presenting Russia as a clear and present danger to member states, and I recognise the threat of exhaustion the Ukraine war poses to the Russian military, it does seem a plausible move.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

How come nobody stopped North Korea from obtaining nuclear weapons? Unlike Iran, Iraq, Libya and anyone else considered the bad guys, nobody is threatening them with any carpet bombing.

Every time North Korea tests something it flops into the sea.

 

[Zeberdi]

Israel now going beyond taking out nuclear development sites and residential areas but now targeting oil and gas infrastructure. That would be an escalation. Especially if Israel go after Iran’s oil industry which exports almost exclusively to China.

With Oil and gas terminals being hit in Russia and If Iran decides to start targeting US and UK bases in the Gulf States, well start walking because driving a car is going to get a lot more expensive!

LIVE: Oil Prices Surge As Israel-Iran Conflict Heats Up | OilPrice.com

Israel launched military strikes against Iran's nuclear facilities, leading to a significant surge in global oil prices and increased geopolitical uncertainty.

oilprice.com

Meanwhile more UK jets heading to ME as Iran launches fresh strikes on Israel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqg440v0gxo