[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

Nicky Campbell phone in on R5....

"Brexit hasn't worked because it hasn't happened. We haven't left the EU!"
"Starmer is just handing back control to Brussels"
"I'm worried that with cheaper exports, we will be getting cheaper imports, and how much will this cost?"
"France tried to cut off power to the Channel Islands"

These people are f***ing mad.

It is quite incredible, just in the last few days on here

"Why is immigration soaring"
"Why can't I go through the EU channel at airports"
"Why can't we be part of the EU defence policy"

BECAUSE YOU F***ING VOTED FOR IT

I can't imagine what it would be like if, as some claimed at the time, they hadn't known what they were voting for

 

[The Clamp]

Nicky Campbell phone in on R5....

"Brexit hasn't worked because it hasn't happened. We haven't left the EU!"
"Starmer is just handing back control to Brussels"
"I'm worried that with cheaper exports, we will be getting cheaper imports, and how much will this cost?"
"France tried to cut off power to the Channel Islands"

These people are f***ing mad.

Exactly why Starmer hasn’t asked for their opinion in some ludicrous referendum.

Let them rant. They lost the election. Get over it.

 

[nicko31]

You're consistent, I'll give you that sunshine

Another NSC account that was laid dormant for years and suddenly came to life recently. Who could that be I wonder...

 

[Pavilionaire]

I've said this before, but Labour really need to get on top of their comms. They need to get their message out to the public about why they are doing stuff and how it will benefit the UK population.

Example: ITV Good Morning Britain with Suzanna Reid. 8am - "Today's headline. Starmer signs UK/EU Agreement. We'll get the government's view at 8.30 when we'll be speaking to the Industry Minister, but here's what some of the papers have been saying". Cue "Daily Mail / Daily Express 'Brexit Betrayal' front pages. Then, Priti Patel pops up reinforcing that message, then they go to a reporter in a Scottish fishing village with a fishy person saying how this was terrible and they hadn't been consulted, then back to the studio where Reid's face and body language is all "Labour have f*cked us over again", then end of piece - no attempt at her co-host Richard Madeley to provide balance, and then on to other news.

It is this precisely this sort of news broadcast presentation that is playing into Farage's hands. At no point in that 5 minute segment was there any attempt to paint the bigger picture about the damage of US tariffs, the benefit of moving closer to the EU in a dangerous world, the way that anyone would benefit from what has been agreed.

It is lazy, ignorant, dumbed-down news. And all this on the back of Reid presenting in a Palace top and interviewing 2 Palace fans at the top of the hour yesterday. If it wasn't for cheeky fit weather girl Laura Tobin I'd bin the station off completely.

 

[nicko31]

I've said this before, but Labour really need to get on top of their comms. They need to get their message out to the public about why they are doing stuff and how it will benefit the UK population.

Example: ITV Good Morning Britain with Suzanna Reid. 8am - "Today's headline. Starmer signs UK/EU Agreement. We'll get the government's view at 8.30 when we'll be speaking to the Industry Minister, but here's what some of the papers have been saying". Cue "Daily Mail / Daily Express 'Brexit Betrayal' front pages. Then, Priti Patel pops up reinforcing that message, then they go to a reporter in a Scottish fishing village with a fishy person saying how this was terrible and they hadn't been consulted, then back to the studio where Reid's face and body language is all "Labour have f*cked us over again", then end of piece - no attempt at her co-host Richard Madeley to provide balance, and then on to other news.

It is this precisely this sort of news broadcast presentation that is playing into Farage's hands. At no point in that 5 minute segment was there any attempt to paint the bigger picture about the damage of US tariffs, the benefit of moving closer to the EU in a dangerous world, the way that anyone would benefit from what has been agreed.

It is lazy, ignorant, dumbed-down news. And all this on the back of Reid presenting in a Palace top and interviewing 2 Palace fans at the top of the hour yesterday. If it wasn't for cheeky fit weather girl Laura Tobin I'd bin the station off completely.

Both Madley and Reid and pretty Brexity. Latest was Rees-Mogg's sister and that Femi chap, just looking for a punch and judy type fight, its tabloid telly.

GMB is best avoided, esp. headed up one of Steve Parish's ex's . I agree on Laura T though

 

[Pavilionaire]

Both Madley and Reid and pretty Brexity. Latest was Rees-Mogg's sister and that Femi chap, just looking for a punch and judy type fight, its tabloid telly.

GMB is best avoided, esp. headed up one of Steve Parish's ex's . I agree on Laura T though

I read today that GMB bosses are planning a reboot, and possibly making it more newsy. Daily viewing figures apparently are only 700,000 compared to just over 1 million for BBC Breakfast.

But GMB is a bit chavvy, light on global news, high on human interest and celeb stuff. Above all, I've always found it a Brexity show, dating back to the days of Piers Morgan.

Looking into it a bit more, you see how small the numbers are for TV news and newspapers generally. Obviously the papers are online now and there is a lot more YouTubers. However, GB News revenues and viewer figures are increasing, they're getting 3.1 million tuning in every month.

I can see how a combination of GB News, GMB, Daily Mail, Daily Express, The Sun, The Star and - to an extent - the BBC shows with Kuenssberg and Fiona Bruce represents collectively quite a pro-Brexit, Farage-sympathetic, right of centre media bias.

I don't think the counterweight of Sky, Guardian, Independent, Mirror has the same depth or reach, and it is a concern. The left of centre aren't getting their message across. The same thing is happening in the States.

 

[abc]

Latest you gov poll

Reform UK 29% (+1)
Labour 22% (-1)
Liberal Democrat 17% (+1)
Conservative 16% (-2)
Green 10% (+1)

Whether or not Reform can sustain this level of support remains to be seen but this really could be the end of the tories as a serious force in politics!

 

[nicko31]

I read today that GMB bosses are planning a reboot, and possibly making it more newsy. Daily viewing figures apparently are only 700,000 compared to just over 1 million for BBC Breakfast.

But GMB is a bit chavvy, light on global news, high on human interest and celeb stuff. Above all, I've always found it a Brexity show, dating back to the days of Piers Morgan.

Looking into it a bit more, you see how small the numbers are for TV news and newspapers generally. Obviously the papers are online now and there is a lot more YouTubers. However, GB News revenues and viewer figures are increasing, they're getting 3.1 million tuning in every month.

I can see how a combination of GB News, GMB, Daily Mail, Daily Express, The Sun, The Star and - to an extent - the BBC shows with Kuenssberg and Fiona Bruce represents collectively quite a pro-Brexit, Farage-sympathetic, right of centre media bias.

I don't think the counterweight of Sky, Guardian, Independent, Mirror has the same depth or reach, and it is a concern. The left of centre aren't getting their message across. The same thing is happening in the States.

You can see why is always difficult for Labour.

Podcast are stronger for in centre of politics though. The likes of the Newsagents, Rest is Politics and even the Trawl which seems to be rapidly gaining fans

 

[Pavilionaire]

Latest you gov poll

Reform UK 29% (+1)
Labour 22% (-1)
Liberal Democrat 17% (+1)
Conservative 16% (-2)
Green 10% (+1)

Whether or not Reform can sustain this level of support remains to be seen but this really could be the end of the tories as a serious force in politics!

I don't see how the Tories get out of this bind. It has been just over 11 months since Farage claimed Reform had overtaken the Tories in the polls, and that they were the real opposition to Labour. Whilst that wasn't reflected in the GE a month later in absolute numbers the writing was on the wall.

There is now a perception that Farage IS de facto opposition to Labour. Increasingly, the media go to him for the counter viewpoint to Labour.

Badenoch's problem is if she supports the Labour government it underlines the 14 years of mess they perpetrated on the British people, but if she goes against them and parrots Reform she is simply underlining that Reform are - in her opinion - right, and that makes it easier for Tory voters to switch to Reform. There is no position she can take on the key issues that is somewhere in between because Tory policies were so soundly rejected in the GE.

There is an argument for the two parties to join forces, but I expect pride and hubris will prevent that happening. The Tories need some on Farage's stardust and to be part of something fresh and untried, while Reform needs the grass roots Tory Party machine and some nous on how to win elections. The polls give a combined 45% vote, and whilst they will potentially shed 5% from those that mutually dislike the other party that would still give them 40%, which is much more than the 33.7% Labour got which gave them a landslide.

 

[Weststander]

Latest you gov poll

Reform UK 29% (+1)
Labour 22% (-1)
Liberal Democrat 17% (+1)
Conservative 16% (-2)
Green 10% (+1)

Whether or not Reform can sustain this level of support remains to be seen but this really could be the end of the tories as a serious force in politics!

That’s a split ‘Brexit’ vote.

 

[heathgate]

I don't see how the Tories get out of this bind. It has been just over 11 months since Farage claimed Reform had overtaken the Tories in the polls, and that they were the real opposition to Labour. Whilst that wasn't reflected in the GE a month later in absolute numbers the writing was on the wall.

There is now a perception that Farage IS de facto opposition to Labour. Increasingly, the media go to him for the counter viewpoint to Labour.

Badenoch's problem is if she supports the Labour government it underlines the 14 years of mess they perpetrated on the British people, but if she goes against them and parrots Reform she is simply underlining that Reform are - in her opinion - right, and that makes it easier for Tory voters to switch to Reform. There is no position she can take on the key issues that is somewhere in between because Tory policies were so soundly rejected in the GE.

There is an argument for the two parties to join forces, but I expect pride and hubris will prevent that happening. The Tories need some on Farage's stardust and to be part of something fresh and untried, while Reform needs the grass roots Tory Party machine and some nous on how to win elections. The polls give a combined 45% vote, and whilst they will potentially shed 5% from those that mutually dislike the other party that would still give them 40%, which is much more than the 33.7% Labour got which gave them a landslide.

They will forge an agreement,..most of the key areas of disagreement are largely 'emotional' ... I assume they can work it out to prevent Labour inflicting more woke/feelings related policy on this nation... Farage himself will be key, can he tone it down a bit to turn any alliance into the acceptable face of centrist/conservative politics.

 

[Screaming J]

They will forge an agreement,..most of the key areas of disagreement are largely 'emotional' ... I assume they can work it out to prevent Labour inflicting more woke/feelings related policy on this nation... Farage himself will be key, can he tone it down a bit to turn any alliance into the acceptable face of centrist/conservative politics.

Just for info - and I am genuinely not trying to pick a fight here - which of Labours policies do you think are woke ones?

There might be plenty who think that given what they did on winter fuel allowance and how they've reacted to the Supreme Court ruling on transgender stuff to name but two, they've been anything but woke!

 

[abc]

That’s a split ‘Brexit’ vote.

I see it is as the perfect argument for PR - there are at least 5 parties that should have MPs in parliament IF we believe democracy (coming from the ancient Greek meaning 'people rule') means every vote counts. It might be a bit chaotic at times but we would see a re engagement in politics across society and the extremes of the left, right and down right loonies would no longer have a meaningful voice or impact.

 

[Weststander]

I see it is as the perfect argument for PR - there are at least 5 parties that should have MPs in parliament IF we believe democracy (coming from the ancient Greek meaning 'people rule') means every vote counts. It might be a bit chaotic at times but we would see a re engagement in politics across society and the extremes of the left, right and down right loonies would no longer have a meaningful voice or impact.

Or, you see quasi fascists eg in France and Germany with a telling contingent in parliament.

 

[chickens]

Or, you see quasi fascists eg in France and Germany with a telling contingent in parliament.

Which isn’t great, but you can’t just believe in the democracy you approve of.

 

[Weststander]

Which isn’t great, but you can’t just believe in the democracy you approve of.

I see a few key advantages of FPTP by constituency. Loathed/crooked MP’s are booted out at the first opportunity. Directly accountable. No national or regional lists to chisel in mates of the pm, who otherwise would be rejected by the constituency.

 

[chickens]

I see a few key advantages of FPTP by constituency. Loathed/crooked MP’s are booted out at the first opportunity. Directly accountable. No national or regional lists to chisel in mates of the pm, who otherwise would be rejected by the constituency.

There I agree with you, but there’s nothing to prevent a PR system at a national level with local elections being separated out for local leadership. I agree we don’t want the PM’s mates running every local constituency.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I see a few key advantages of FPTP by constituency. Loathed/crooked MP’s are booted out at the first opportunity. Directly accountable. No national or regional lists to chisel in mates of the pm, who otherwise would be rejected by the constituency.

And, with just 33% of the vote, or 1 in 5 of the electorate voting for you, you can gain a majority so large as to make any opposition completely pointless for 5 years

 

[abc]

Or, you see quasi fascists eg in France and Germany with a telling contingent in parliament.

PR does enable minority parties or individuals with extreme views to get a seat in parliament you are right (provided of course they pass the fit to stand tests). However, that is very different to having power which under PR tends to be a coalition of the reasonable rather than of the racist, mad or corrupt.

Most people who may vote Reform are not racist but (in their view) they have to vote for a party containing racists to get the change they want. If every vote counts it is feasible to get that change by voting for other parties.

If Reform still got 29% of the vote (using this poll example) they would have to moderate their policies in practice or they would not be able to form a coalition and would not be able be part of a government

 

[Weststander]

PR does enable minority parties or individuals with extreme views to get a seat in parliament you are right (provided of course they pass the fit to stand tests). However, that is very different to having power which under PR tends to be a coalition of the reasonable rather than of the racist, mad or corrupt.

Most people who may vote Reform are not racist but (in their view) they have to vote for a party containing racists to get the change they want. If every vote counts it is feasible to get that change by voting for other parties.

If Reform still got 29% of the vote (using this poll example) they would have to moderate their policies in practice or they would not be able to form a coalition and would not be able be part of a government

Or, Europe’s quasi fascists haven’t had to ameliorate their views to win increasing swathes of seats, unhindered by FPTP. Carte blanche to be overtly anti immigrant and pro murderous Putin.