[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[A1X]

Back on topic then, I hope Rupert has some good sunglasses because he’s seeing the light real bright these days..

Ex-Reform MP Rupert Lowe says Farage ‘must never be PM’ as CPS rules out charges

MP accuses ex-colleagues of attempt to silence him as CPS says it will not charge him over allegations of verbal threats

www.theguardian.com

There's a clip from an old episode of the excellent Charlie Brooker's Newswipe which portrayed (through the medium of puppets) the idea of "two giant monsters made of shit battling over London", I really wish I could find it again as this sort of news story would so utterly justify its use

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

TBH I'm more concerned about Labour's action than the dog whistle rhetoric

Stopping care workers visas and extending leave to remain to a decade, its all pretty grubby and unhelpful.

Our birth rate is 1.57, we need honest conversations about immigration, not knee jerk reactions to a racist party led by a pound shop Trump.

You talking about Kier again?

 

[darkwolf666]

I wonder if he would be tempted to start his own party to split the right wing vote?

I don't think he has the broad appeal of Mr. Farage, all the current Reform MP's have pretty much got their gig riding on his coat tails...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You talking about Kier again?

I went onto the BBC pages to see whether all the 'outrage' at Starmer's latest attack on something or other beloved of the left is making national news.
All I found was this:

Starmer condemns fires as 'attack on democracy'

Political leaders offer their support to the PM amid investigation into suspected arson attacks on properties linked to him.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[nicko31]

You talking about Kier again?

Yep, despite this he is still on best of what's on offer and generally hasn't had a bad couple of weeks.

A lot can happen in the next 4 years.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Yep, despite this he is still on best of what's on offer. A lot can happen in 4 years...

He is, without doubt the best on offer.

However, he is reacting to Farage/Reform - and going against what he believes and has stated in the past.

 

[abc]

Oh, I'm absolutely disgusted with Labour chasing Reform voters and resorting to their rhetoric. They should be leading from the left, not aping the right. And, I have, on here, called out the racist anti-Semitic comments of devoted Corbynistas.

There are, however, around five other threads discussing the merits of the current government. Perhaps we could keep this one for Reform?

As my mum always says, two wrongs do not make a right. And, as is regularly pointed out on here, to resort to whataboutery is to lose the argument.

I take your point though my post was very much about reform. I will also quote someone (not my Mum!) who advised us to remove the plank from our own eye before removing the speck of sawdust from someone else's. Whether its a whataboutery or not ( a not always helpful term and the person that uses it can equally lose the argument IMHO) my point is that we cannot accept racism in one party and condemn it in another. It must surely be unacceptable anywhere and everywhere?

I want to see Farage and Reform disappear but the argument that they are racist and thus are unsupportable and all supporters are therefore racists, is not an argument that is going to achieve anything if the other main parties are also demonstrably racist. Labour have demonstrated significant anti semitism tendencies in the past and now Starmer has copied and even top trumped that of Reform. The Tories are islamaphobic and have been very close to Reform and Starmer with some of their anti immigrant rhetoric.

Maybe my original post was primarily about racism in politics per se and not just reform but it was not really intended purely as a comment on the performance of the current government either

 

[Guinness Boy]

I take your point though my post was very much about reform. I will also quote someone (not my Mum!) who advised us to remove the plank from our own eye before removing the speck of sawdust from someone else's. Whether its a whataboutery or not ( a not always helpful term and the person that uses it can equally lose the argument IMHO) my point is that we cannot accept racism in one party and condemn it in another. It must surely be unacceptable anywhere and everywhere?

I want to see Farage and Reform disappear but the argument that they are racist and thus are unsupportable and all supporters are therefore racists, is not an argument that is going to achieve anything if the other main parties are also demonstrably racist. Labour have demonstrated significant anti semitism tendencies in the past and now Starmer has copied and even top trumped that of Reform. The Tories are islamaphobic and have been very close to Reform and Starmer with some of their anti immigrant rhetoric.

Maybe my original post was primarily about racism in politics per se and not just reform but it was not really intended purely as a comment on the performance of the current government either

I would certainly accept that politics in general has shifted rightwards in this country thanks to both Social and Mainstream medias. Labour is definitely not exempt from it and has a few with very dodgy views on Jewish people, and some unfortunate rhetoric at the top this week. However, it has many people within it who have actively and successfully fought racism, just as Baroness Warsi did for a long time from within the Conservative Party. I don't see anyone in Reform with that record.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I would certainly accept that politics in general has shifted rightwards in this country thanks to both Social and Mainstream medias. Labour is definitely not exempt from it and has a few with very dodgy views on Jewish people, and some unfortunate rhetoric at the top this week. However, it has many people within it who have actively and successfully fought racism, just as Baroness Warsi did for a long time from within the Conservative Party. I don't see anyone in Reform with that record.

Labour need a few wins over the next few months. Get them, and the awkward moments will be forgotten.

Also, pissing off the likes of (dare I say) you and I for a few days/weeks may well be offsetting a reset in the minds of some who have hitherto been duped into believing that Labour are only interested in 'ladymen', 'immigrants' and 'do-goodery', and are hell-bent on banning everything except transgender muslims on the dole. I may be wrong about this, but on the other hand, I may be wrong about being wrong about this.

 

[n1 gull]

Oh, I'm absolutely disgusted with Labour chasing Reform voters and resorting to their rhetoric. They should be leading from the left, not aping the right. And, I have, on here, called out the racist anti-Semitic comments of devoted Corbynistas.

There are, however, around five other threads discussing the merits of the current government. Perhaps we could keep this one for Reform?

As my mum always says, two wrongs do not make a right. And, as is regularly pointed out on here, to resort to whataboutery is to lose the argument.

I must say I respect this response

You have always been consistent with your values

I spoke to a couple of my left leaning mates who were defending it and I was flabbergasted

If Boris or Rees-Mogg had said this they would have been spitting feathers

Respect where it’s due for not following the party line

 

[WATFORD zero]

I would certainly accept that politics in general has shifted rightwards in this country thanks to both Social and Mainstream medias. Labour is definitely not exempt from it and has a few with very dodgy views on Jewish people, and some unfortunate rhetoric at the top this week. However, it has many people within it who have actively and successfully fought racism, just as Baroness Warsi did for a long time from within the Conservative Party. I don't see anyone in Reform with that record.

I was just about to say that she's always struck me as an honest good'un through and through.

" On 26 September 2024, Warsi announced that she would no longer take the Conservative Party whip in the House of Lords "

A conviction politician, who could have guessed

 

[Hugo Rune]

He is, without doubt the best on offer.

However, he is reacting to Farage/Reform - and going against what he believes and has stated in the past.

Perhaps he thinks that in order to change the narrative, you have to control it. The recent local elections would have sent shock waves through his party. They absolutely have to listen to their electorate and they are now pandering to the loudest of them.

On one end of the scale, you have your Thatchers and Corbyns who have deep values and ideologies and will not bend an inch, even in the face of overwhelming voter pressure or common sense. On the other end of the scale, you have your Boris Johnsons who will do and say anything if they think it's going to earn them more attention, money and most importantly, power.

Sir Keir needs to balance himself in-between these two leadership styles if he wants my vote in 4 years time.

For many, many years, Labour has been representing the educated classes. Those who are progressive and realise that the issues the country face are complex, multi-faceted and need strong leadership and gentle persuasion of the electorate to solve. However, those that criticise Sir Keir need to look at what he was saying to get elected. The uncomfortable reality is that he is being very true to his election promises, not to the rest of his political career. This is important because in theory, he was elected on Labour's manifesto not on quotes or opinions stated before the GE campaign.

My hope is that he can stamp on Reform as the Tories all but implode. The only way of doing this is by listening to their voters and taking their concerns on board, as distasteful as some of them might be. There also needs to be a level of appeasement with the billionaires, they hold so much influence over a very significant section of the electorate who just can't understand that they are being gaslit for personal gain.

And then they'll be the next election. I'm convinced that the way to find real growth, reduce mass immigration and protect ourselves against the various threats from the USA, China and Russia is to rejoin the customs union at the very least but preferably, re-join the EU. That decision needs to be taken democratically so they need to campaign on it in 2029 when the results of the failed Brexit experiment should be obvious to even the simplest of folk. The current government do not have a justifiable mandate to rejoin now. This should be allied with a slow and stealthy 'take' from the richest 1%. Go too fast and you startle the flock (like Truss did despite her genuinely trying to make the rich a lot richer) and your economy is tanked; you have to take a strategic approach. I just hope Sir Keir has one...

 

[Weststander]

I wonder if he would be tempted to start his own party to split the right wing vote?

LBC think he’ll join forces with (I think it’s a female politician) the co founder with Farage of Repulse, she runs another party now. The Peoples Front of United Kingdom.

 

[jcdenton08]

For many, many years, Labour has been representing the educated classes. Those who are progressive and realise that the issues the country face are complex, multi-faceted and need strong leadership and gentle persuasion of the electorate to solve.

And herein lies part of the problem.

The “educated classes” aren’t the people most affected by cuts like WFA, for instance, for them that was bonus money.

Liberal educated urbanites in places like Brighton, Bristol and York aren’t the ones feeling aggrieved because of mass immigration. People in Peterborough, Rotherham, Boston, Blackburn, Burnley feel very differently.

And each vote counts whether that person has a degree in political science and goes to Pro-Palestine rallies, or if they work 50 hours a week as a labourer with no overarching political philosophy. One person, one vote.

“A Conservative is a liberal who has been mugged” said Irving Kristol.

Perhaps us (largely) white, financially comfortable “educated” people should try employing the very empathy we are expecting of others when welcoming mass immigration.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

And herein lies part of the problem.

The “educated classes” aren’t the people most affected by cuts like WFA, for instance, for them that was bonus money.

Liberal educated urbanites in places like Brighton, Bristol and York aren’t the ones feeling aggrieved because of mass immigration. People in Peterborough, Rotherham, Boston, Blackburn, Burnley feel very differently.

And each vote counts whether that person has a degree in political science and goes to Pro-Palestine rallies, or if they work 50 hours a week as a labourer with no overarching political philosophy. One person, one vote.

“A Conservative is a liberal who has been mugged” said Irving Kristol.

Perhaps us (largely) white, financially comfortable “educated” people should try employing the very empathy we are expecting of others when welcoming mass immigration.

I certainly do know how some people in Rotherham & other areas of South & West Yorkshire feel.
There isn’t the north south divide there used to be. Many on here have also lived elsewhere in the country.

 

[Guinness Boy]

And herein lies part of the problem.

The “educated classes” aren’t the people most affected by cuts like WFA, for instance, for them that was bonus money.

Liberal educated urbanites in places like Brighton, Bristol and York aren’t the ones feeling aggrieved because of mass immigration. People in Peterborough, Rotherham, Boston, Blackburn, Burnley feel very differently.

And each vote counts whether that person has a degree in political science and goes to Pro-Palestine rallies, or if they work 50 hours a week as a labourer with no overarching political philosophy. One person, one vote.

“A Conservative is a liberal who has been mugged” said Irving Kristol.

Perhaps us (largely) white, financially comfortable “educated” people should try employing the very empathy we are expecting of others when welcoming mass immigration.

This could have been written by multi-banned old racist Bushy, who’d bang on about how horrible Tower Hamlets was from a leafy suburb in Haywards Heath. “You don’t understand” he’d whinge from somewhere that was 99% white.

People should think, write and vote with the courage of their own convictions. The whole reason for a constituency based HoP with a local MP is that the needs, experiences, education levels and moral baselines are completely different between Kemp Town and Oldham.

What you’re asking for is a ubiquitous mono culture.

 

[WATFORD zero]

And herein lies part of the problem.

The “educated classes” aren’t the people most affected by cuts like WFA, for instance, for them that was bonus money.

Liberal educated urbanites in places like Brighton, Bristol and York aren’t the ones feeling aggrieved because of mass immigration. People in Peterborough, Rotherham, Boston, Blackburn, Burnley feel very differently.

And each vote counts whether that person has a degree in political science and goes to Pro-Palestine rallies, or if they work 50 hours a week as a labourer with no overarching political philosophy. One person, one vote.

“A Conservative is a liberal who has been mugged” said Irving Kristol.

Perhaps us (largely) white, financially comfortable “educated” people should try employing the very empathy we are expecting of others when welcoming mass immigration.

And there you again with Farage's quotes

But of course, it's not what you think, it's just repeating his quotes

 

[jcdenton08]

And there you again with Farage's quotes

But of course, it's not what you think, it's just repeating his quotes

I don’t read much of what Farage says, so I wouldn’t know.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I don’t read much of what Farage says, so I wouldn’t know.

So I guess you repeating his quotes is just lucky coincidence

 

[Guinness Boy]

I don’t read much of what Farage says, so I wouldn’t know.

So the fact you’ve pretty much posted his thoughts verbatim is a coincidence?

I’ll extend my last post. If everyone is having empathy with the sorts of people who were burning down hotels last summer, who is there left to have empathy with people who’ve just escaped a war zone or a famine or have mental health problems because they’re struggling with their own identity?