[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[Thunder Bolt]

That was a throwaway guess, not a hard and fast dogma. I doubt anyone would want to go back to the 1950's schooling, with 50 children in a class and not enough paper to go round so they wrote on slates. Even if there was free milk.

Really? I went to school in the 50s and never once used a slate.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Really? I went to school in the 50s and never once used a slate.

Perhaps your school did have enough paper or perhaps you were later in the fifties. The one my mother taught in, starting in 1953, did not.

Did you have classes of 50?

 

[abc]

I'm not offended by the term 'woke', I just can't find anyone who can define it properly. It could be just lazy. But we'll return to that.

'Lanyard Class' could be taken to mean anyone who works in an office or in an office / brain work type job. The very people that Musk and Trump are targeting in the US right now. And there's a good reason Reform would buy into such a term. As shown by Farage's voting record, posted here earlier today, a lot of what Reform stand for is actually anti-worker and against worker's rights. So, as a smokescreen for that, they also have to be seen to be against the same things the people they're appealing to are against. Immigration, "experts", woke and the middle class. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

It is classic divide and conquer. Create spurious groups of people to hate and then come out with dog whistle policy that targets them, and play the victim if called on it. No one actually gets wealthier (apart from Nigel, Don and Vladamir) but at least the rest of us are in the shit too.

Not too far off the outcome of classic socialism when you think about it.

I’m not going to defend Farage or his cronies as I despise them.

However, I do believe there are reasons that they are currently (according to polls) the most popular party in the country and that is not because a sizeable proportion of the country are thick, racist or simply wrong.

If we want to stop Reform then I truly believe we need to understand why people are attracted to them and think about how we can either address their concerns or engage constructively in debate with them. The lanyard article was a constructive attempt to understand rather than condemn.

All political parties thrive on creating scapegoats and enemies to their cause. The Tories and Labour are no different to Reform in this sense.

 

[TomandJerry]

I’m not going to defend Farage or his cronies as I despise them.

However, I do believe there are reasons that they are currently (according to polls) the most popular party in the country and that is not because a sizeable proportion of the country are thick, racist or simply wrong.

If we want to stop Reform then I truly believe we need to understand why people are attracted to them and think about how we can either address their concerns or engage constructively in debate with them. The lanyard article was a constructive attempt to understand rather than condemn.

All political parties thrive on creating scapegoats and enemies to their cause. The Tories and Labour are no different to Reform in this sense.

Because people were fed up with the Conservatives, and still mainly feel that way inclined.

So where do the Conservative voters go next who are disconnected from them? There's basically only one option, Reform. (Maybe a small percentage to Labour)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Perhaps your school did have enough paper or perhaps you were later in the fifties. The one my mother taught in, starting in 1953, did not.

Did you have classes of 50?

No, there were about 32/33 in my class. I did my 11+ in 1959.

 

[birthofanorange]

I’m not going to defend Farage or his cronies as I despise them.

However, I do believe there are reasons that they are currently (according to polls) the most popular party in the country and that is not because a sizeable proportion of the country are thick, racist or simply wrong.

If we want to stop Reform then I truly believe we need to understand why people are attracted to them and think about how we can either address their concerns or engage constructively in debate with them. The lanyard article was a constructive attempt to understand rather than condemn.

All political parties thrive on creating scapegoats and enemies to their cause. The Tories and Labour are no different to Reform in this sense.

Would you say they are intelligent, non-racist and simply correct? Of course there are reasons for voting Reform, but I genuinely believe that the three you mention have at least some bearing on it, to varying degrees.

 

[TomandJerry]

Would you say they are intelligent, non-racist and simply correct? Of course there are reasons for voting Reform, but I genuinely believe that the three you mention have at least some bearing on it, to varying degrees.

What racist policies exist within Reform's manifesto?

 

[dsr-burnley]

No, there were about 32/33 in my class. I did my 11+ in 1959.

You were lucky. My mother started teaching in 1953 and about half her graduation class (from Saffron Walden Teacher Training College) started out with classes of 50 or so. Imagine being a new teacher on on her first day facing a class of 50, all on their first day at school as well. Times have changed.

 

[birthofanorange]

What racist policies exist within Reform's manifesto?

I'm sure there are plenty of veiled ones, but in this instance we're referring to the Reform voters, not the manifesto.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You were lucky. My mother started teaching in 1953 and about half her graduation class (from Saffron Walden Teacher Training College) started out with classes of 50 or so. Imagine being a new teacher on on her first day facing a class of 50, all on their first day at school as well. Times have changed.

That wasn't the case in Sussex. Both St Nicolas and Benfield had reasonably sized classes and I can't remember anyone complaining about lack of paper.
I then went to the County Grammar School where girls arrived from Hove, as well as Portslade, Burgess Hill, Hassocks and Hurstpierpoint.

Maybe it was just your local area that suffered?

 

[Lifelong Supporter]

I went to Junction Road School Burgess Hill in 1966 when I sat my 11 plus. There were 47 in my class at that time. Fortunately I had a very experienced and capable teacher who was thoroughly dedicated to his career.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Because people were fed up with the Conservatives, and still mainly feel that way inclined.

So where do the Conservative voters go next who are disconnected from them? There's basically only one option, Reform. (Maybe a small percentage to Labour)

If these are traditional 'one nation' conservatives from before the Brexit fiasco and consequential 'race to compete with Nige', then I would suggest that Starmer's labour is by far the closest to a traditional Cameron/Major/Thatcher Conservative Government, politically.

Voting Reform would be the equivalent of voting National Front/BNP when you had the choice of the three previously mentioned Conservative PMs

And there's still the Greens and Lib Dems for the left, although the Lib Dems really haven't moved far at all, it's all the others around them

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I went to Junction Road School Burgess Hill in 1966 when I sat my 11 plus. There were 47 in my class at that time. Fortunately I had a very experienced and capable teacher who was thoroughly dedicated to his career.

I bet you didn’t use a slate.

 

[Chicken Run]

So where do the Conservative voters go next who are disconnected from them? There's basically only one option, Reform. (Maybe a small percentage to Labour)

If the Labour Party continues to impress me as they have over the last few weeks and the weekend announcements on immigration then i more than content to vote for them at the next election, no need to follow the Retard UK Party

 

[dsr-burnley]

That wasn't the case in Sussex. Both St Nicolas and Benfield had reasonably sized classes and I can't remember anyone complaining about lack of paper.
I then went to the County Grammar School where girls arrived from Hove, as well as Portslade, Burgess Hill, Hassocks and Hurstpierpoint.

Maybe it was just your local area that suffered?

Possibly it was my local area only for the paper shortage. (Actually when I went to school in the seventies, they still inspected used exercise books and tore out the blank pages at the end of the school year. And no new pencil until the old one was beyond sharpening.)

But the fifty in the class was commonplace for baby boomers. My mother produced a book of life stories of her Saffron Walden class of teachers, and half of the contributors mentioned classes of 45 or more. Some of them even over 50. Classrooms were no larger then that they are now, and it was two children to a desk. The headmistress could be marking work (yes, they did have paper, just not enough of it) and listening to two children reading and she could tell if either child made a mistake.

 

[Brian Munich]

I’m not going to defend Farage or his cronies as I despise them.

However, I do believe there are reasons that they are currently (according to polls) the most popular party in the country and that is not because a sizeable proportion of the country are thick, racist or simply wrong.

If we want to stop Reform then I truly believe we need to understand why people are attracted to them and think about how we can either address their concerns or engage constructively in debate with them. The lanyard article was a constructive attempt to understand rather than condemn.

All political parties thrive on creating scapegoats and enemies to their cause. The Tories and Labour are no different to Reform in this sense.

Lots of people are unhappy with life for a number of reasons. Could be because they don’t earn as much as they’d like, they’re affected by crime or simply that they’re just old, unfit and grumpy about it. Reform gives them a group of people to blame for these things happening.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Lots of people are unhappy with life for a number of reasons. Could be because they don’t earn as much as they’d like, they’re affected by crime or simply that they’re just old, unfit and grumpy about it. Reform gives them a group of people to blame for these things happening.

I do hope you're not trying to get someone to say "See, it's not only thick stupid racists that vote Reform, Grumpy old losers do as well".

Because I'm sure nobody would be naive enough to fall for that

 

[Weststander]

Because people were fed up with the Conservatives, and still mainly feel that way inclined.

So where do the Conservative voters go next who are disconnected from them? There's basically only one option, Reform. (Maybe a small percentage to Labour)

Peston’s ITV prog last week had an analysis of the numbers, July 24 to May 25. The Tories had already lost voters to Reform, since more. Whilst Labour have lost a third of their July 24 voters including a sizable number to Reform. That might not make sense to Labour loyalists in Brighton, which is a political world away from other parts of England and Wales.

 

[A1X]

Warming and reassuring to continue the obsession with why people may choose a certain party.

Rarely is it asked of Labour voters, where the manifesto looks as solid and workable as a Chelsea FC business model. I sometimes wonder if it's to see if they might, out of naughtiness, catch out folk.

To be fair, we are frequently told (mostly by the press) that we need to “listen to the concerns of Reform voters”, whereas nobody spent the 14 years of the last Government saying the Government needed “listen to the concerns of Labour voters”.

But if Reform voters refuse to tell us what it is that makes them support Reform then how are we supposed to “listen to their concerns”?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Really? I went to school in the 50s and never once used a slate.

You didn't grow up in Bumley, next to a quarry.