[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[TomandJerry]

Those are their own back of a fag packet calculations from their own website. "Pledges" is extraordinarily high level and, as I've already highlighted, the BoE interest pledge will not save a penny, may crash the economy and is illegal.

Something I did not know, it's an obvious question I suppose but how can Reform get away with something that's illegal in their own manifesto?

Are you sure there's no loop hole?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Any manifesto that says it will "cut waste" to the tune of billions deserves to be put straight in the bin. If it was that easy, why haven't other parties done it before? And that especially applies to parties who believe in a small public sector.

I can't imagine who they are trying to appeal to by putting something so ridiculously naive into their manifesto

 

[BadFish]

Something I did not know, it's an obvious question I suppose but how can Reform get away with something that's illegal in their own manifesto?

Are you sure there's no loop hole?

I guess you would need to look at the legalities around lying in their manifestos.

I suspect they can pretty much say what they want, but stand to be corrected hee.

 

[darkwolf666]

I do know lots about IR35 and believe it's a good piece of anti-avoidance legislation, but it was mismanaged by HMRC for the first 20+ years of its existence. The more recent clarification and tightening of the rules - particularly the requirements for medium and large business end clients to become responsible for contractor compliance - have made this a perfectly sound and workable set of rules.

The problem with IR35 is that because of the previous laxity by HMRC, far too many people (particularly e.g. labourers and IT bums on seats) became 'contractors' to cheat the system. They're now complaining when the system has bitten back, leaving them in a worse position than if they had been employees as they should have been all along. Much of the blame lies with the end clients and recruitment agents who, spying a quick buck, encouraged this behaviour, but this has almost entirely gone away now with the 'new' rules.

Thanks for the explanation and the clarification that it is, as I suspected, about 'playing' the system to make money! Right up Mr. Farage's alley then!

 

[WATFORD zero]

Because it's just my opinion. Like music, a film, or anything....what makes your opinion better than that of another?

I think I may be able to help out here

opinion
/əˈpɪnjən/

a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"that, in my opinion, is right"

validity
/vəˈlɪdət̮i/

(of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.
"a valid criticism"

So, if you are unable to justify or validate your opinion and preferences using simple facts and knowledge, I would suggest that someone who can, gives their opinion validity
and therefor makes it 'better'.

Indeed. Voting preferences and reasons should be personal.....and not up for scrutiny, justification nor analysis.

Hope this helps

 

[abc]

Do you not think 'lanyard class' is a dangerous generalisation, up there with 'woke' and 'dungaree tuggers'?

Not really. I can’t find it in me to be offended by the term woke but dungaree huggers was, I think, used as a deliberate term of abuse.

It’s just one journalist’s representation of something many of us can relate to - the (often petty) bureaucracy that we encounter on a daily basis combined with the patronising mantra of certain people or groups of people merely because they cannot countenance the possibility that others have a right to hold different views to theirs.

The determination to be offended is another trait and suggesting the term lanyard class is ‘a dangerous generalisation’ might be a good illustration!

 

[Guinness Boy]

Not really. I can’t find it in me to be offended by the term woke but dungaree huggers was, I think, used as a deliberate term of abuse.

It’s just one journalist’s representation of something many of us can relate to - the (often petty) bureaucracy that we encounter on a daily basis combined with the patronising mantra of certain people or groups of people merely because they cannot countenance the possibility that others have a right to hold different views to theirs.

The determination to be offended is another trait and suggesting the term lanyard class is ‘a dangerous generalisation’ might be a good illustration!

I'm not offended by the term 'woke', I just can't find anyone who can define it properly. It could be just lazy. But we'll return to that.

'Lanyard Class' could be taken to mean anyone who works in an office or in an office / brain work type job. The very people that Musk and Trump are targeting in the US right now. And there's a good reason Reform would buy into such a term. As shown by Farage's voting record, posted here earlier today, a lot of what Reform stand for is actually anti-worker and against worker's rights. So, as a smokescreen for that, they also have to be seen to be against the same things the people they're appealing to are against. Immigration, "experts", woke and the middle class. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

It is classic divide and conquer. Create spurious groups of people to hate and then come out with dog whistle policy that targets them, and play the victim if called on it. No one actually gets wealthier (apart from Nigel, Don and Vladamir) but at least the rest of us are in the shit too.

Not too far off the outcome of classic socialism when you think about it.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

I suspect one reason people are supporting Reform is as a reaction to those (like the majority on here) who say that anyone who doesn’t agree with their politics is wrong, thick, racist and so on. This arrogance has created the space for Reform whom are attracting support simply by saying ‘we are listening to and understanding your concerns and you are not thick, but have a right to be heard as much as the ‘lanyard class’ ( an expression coined in an excellent Times column on the subject recently).

Yes. Stop telling the people to stop punching themselves in the face, as that is what is causing the nosebleed and black eyes. Otherwise they will teach you a lesson by punching themselves harder in the face. Don't tell them that's stupid, or they'll bring out the baseball bat and really get to work hitting themselves in the face.

 

[birthofanorange]

Yes. Stop telling the people to stop punching themselves in the face, as that is what is causing the nosebleed and black eyes. Otherwise they will teach you a lesson by punching themselves harder in the face. Don't tell them that's stupid, or they'll bring out the baseball bat and really get to work hitting themselves in the face.

 

[BBassic]

Yes. Stop telling the people to stop punching themselves in the face, as that is what is causing the nosebleed and black eyes. Otherwise they will teach you a lesson by punching themselves harder in the face. Don't tell them that's stupid, or they'll bring out the baseball bat and really get to work hitting themselves in the face.

I'm not sure how much power you'd get behind a self-inflicted baseball bat swing to the face. Much better to hand it to someone else, perhaps named Nigel, and let him do it.

 

[Chicken Run]

No one is expecting a list of sources for posts. People are asking @TomandJerry to link to articles they're directly copying and pasting from.

Oh ok, btw Nigel Charade has said that he would bring back milk to children at Primary School Age

 

[BadFish]

I think I may be able to help out here



So, if you are unable to justify or validate your opinion and preferences using simple facts and knowledge, I would suggest that someone who can, gives their opinion validity
and therefor makes it 'better'.



Hope this helps

Some people have a very lofty view of an opinion, like it has status of is important in someway. It's like any of our modern days 'rights' that people scream about all the time. What they usually forget is that with rights comes responsibilities.

Actually along with your right to an opinion, you have a responsibility to base it in in some kind of truth or logic and not blubber when someone asks you to justify it.

This links to the moronic straw man argument being bandied about on this thread about 'people having a different opinion to you'. No one has said this or will say it. The suggestion about people being thick when they vote for Farage and Reform is not because they see things differently it is because their is no evidence that to do so is anything but a stupid thing to do.

The way to prove that this is incorrect is to prove that voting for Reform is sensible and smart. No one is even bothering to attempt that (I guess no one is THAT thick), so we are left with people pretending to be offended on behalf of the thick people that are doing something think.

How woke is is that we aren't even allowed to 'say it like it us' and point that out

Apparently this post is going to send more turkeys to vote for Christmas, so ... Sorry about that.

 

[BadFish]

Oh ok, btw Nigel Charade has said that he would bring back milk to children at Primary School Age

Can you provide a link for that?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Oh ok, btw Nigel Charade has said that he would bring back milk to children at Primary School Age

Ah, we have a schism in the 'what glorious decade will Nigel return us to' answers. The Burnley fan thought it would probably be the 1950s but this would suggest the 1960s instead. So only 65 years ago. Phew.

(When Thatcher abandoned free milk at Primary Level it cost twice as much as was being spent on books. Will there be a corresponding reduction in spending on books? Or will the abandoning of net zero and HSR also be paying for this?)

Why is free milk for children such a hot topic?

The government has denied it is planning to scrap giving free milk to under-fives, but why is this scheme such a sensitive issue for politicians?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Chicken Run]

Ah, we have a schism

No more like a casm….

 

[dsr-burnley]

Ah, we have a schism in the 'what glorious decade will Nigel return us to' answers. The Burnley fan thought it would probably be the 1950s but this would suggest the 1960s instead. So only 65 years ago. Phew.

That was a throwaway guess, not a hard and fast dogma. I doubt anyone would want to go back to the 1950's schooling, with 50 children in a class and not enough paper to go round so they wrote on slates. Even if there was free milk.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Some people have a very lofty view of an opinion, like it has status of is important in someway. It's like any of our modern days 'rights' that people scream about all the time. What they usually forget is that with rights comes responsibilities.

Actually along with your right to an opinion, you have a responsibility to base it in in some kind of truth or logic and not blubber when someone asks you to justify it.

This links to the moronic straw man argument being bandied about on this thread about 'people having a different opinion to you'. No one has said this or will say it. The suggestion about people being thick when they vote for Farage and Reform is not because they see things differently it is because their is no evidence that to do so is anything but a stupid thing to do.

The way to prove that this is incorrect is to prove that voting for Reform is sensible and smart. No one is even bothering to attempt that (I guess no one is THAT thick), so we are left with people pretending to be offended on behalf of the thick people that are doing something think.

How woke is is that we aren't even allowed to 'say it like it us' and point that out

Apparently this post is going to send more turkeys to vote for Christmas, so ... Sorry about that.

I don't think anyone could prove that voting Labour or Conservative is sensible or smart. Why should Reform be different?

 

[Pavilionaire]

Oh ok, btw Nigel Charade has said that he would bring back milk to children at Primary School Age

Shortly to be followed by a Chopper for every boy, a Tiny Tears doll for every girl and the public smoking ban lifted for mum and dad. Make Britain Great Again.

 

[Chicken Run]

Shortly to be followed by a Chopper for every boy, a Tiny Tears doll for every girl and the public smoking ban lifted for mum and dad. Make Britain Great Again.

Don’t forget Corporal Punishment, didn’t do me any harm being assaulted with a bamboo cane

 

[SouthSaxon]

Can you provide a link for that?

He’s been misled. It’s actually Nigel Fromage