[Albion] Is FH really performing that badly?

[Bold Seagull]

No ones taking them away. I’m just surprised anyone who thinks conceding two + goals a game over the last six is anywhere near ‘decent performance’. Lucky this week a top draw finish gets us out of trouble although you can’t obviously rely on it. If we scored 3-4 or a game it would’nt matter as much risk to reward and all that.

Almost as surprising as thinking that you’re likely not to concede goals without a fit right back and only 1 recognised centre back who himself is fighting for match fitness, and a forced changed back line every week.

 

[Justice]

Almost as surprising as thinking that you’re likely not to concede goals without a fit right back and only 1 recognised centre back who himself is fighting for match fitness, and a forced changed back line every week.

Easy to forget how good Hinshelwood was at right back last season. He was that good he was being touted as a possible future England RB. Definitely one who’s struggling with this system.
Are we blaming the defence for Bart’s blundering behaviour to?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Would you back him to work it out with actual money?

Did you hear about the constipated mathematician? He worked it out with a pencil.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Easy to forget how good Hinshelwood was at right back last season. He was that good he was being touted as a possible future England RB. Definitely one who’s struggling with this system.
Are we blaming the defence for Bart’s blundering behaviour to?

So you want Hinshelwood to be permenantly converted into a right back rather than getting starts in his favoured midfield role? Weird argument regarding his development.

 

[Guinness Boy]

So you want Hinshelwood to be permenantly converted into a right back rather than getting starts in his favoured midfield role? Weird argument regarding his development.

We had three right backs on the bench on Saturday plus Hinshlewood available to drop in there but not needed because Weiffer had a great game. Our defensive issues are down the left and in goal.

 

[Zeberdi]

We had three right backs on the bench on Saturday plus Hinshlewood available to drop in there but not needed because Weiffer had a great game. Our defensive issues are down the left and in goal.

This.

Whatever the reason, Pervis has regressed and we don’t have a decent (fit) option to cover him. Although Lamptey is a reasonable squad cover if he could stay fit.

Bart’s Bloomers might be partly attributed to the constantly changing personnel in front of him but that nutmeg last week was … well, it was …

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

This.

Whatever the reason, Pervis has regressed and we don’t have a decent (fit) option to cover him. Although Lamptey is a reasonable squad cover if he could stay fit.

Bart’s Bloomers might be partly attributed to the constantly changing personnel in front of him but that nutmeg last week was … well, it was …

I think Pervis is knackered, and when you are tired to that extent you begin to get sloppy.

I think the players are physically fit, but do question the level of intensity that is apparently taking place during the week.

Fair points as always @Bold Seagull but (and I know I’m saying this on every thread), we look weak out of possession, and that is because in a number of games the structure is so poor. That is not injuries (though they don’t help).

I do think Newcastle will be interesting, because in terms of the above we were excellent at St James Park, so FH can do it.

Our biggest area of risk is transition following loss of the ball, because we are so condensed that we are undone by a quick pass/long ball as the FBs are pushed up.

 

[Zeberdi]

I think Pervis is knackered, and when you are tired to that extent you begin to get sloppy.

I think the players are physically fit, but do question the level of intensity that is apparently taking place during the week.

No not at left back.

Igor (who can play at LB) and Ferdi both have had long term injury issues and still rehabbing. Lamptey has also been out injured.

Pervis has looked off the pace tbh since he had a serious thigh injury last season and ankle surgery. He missed 4 weeks in January too.

https://www.premierinjuries.com/newsroom/epl/players/pervis-estupinan

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

No not at left back.

Igor (who can play at LB) and Ferdi both have had long term injury issues and still rehabbing. Lamptey has also been out injured.

Pervis has looked off the pace tbh since he had a serious thigh injury last season and ankle surgery. He missed 4 weeks in January too.

https://www.premierinjuries.com/newsroom/epl/players/pervis-estupinan

See my top line. I think in the case of Pervis, fatigue is playing as big a part.

think you missed the nuance/poor explanation of my post, I think the starting 11 are fit (I realise re Ferdi and Igor), but all the team are training at such a high level of intensity, that other injuries occur due to fatigue/being knackered/over worked.

Poorly explained. I certainly wasn’t suggesting that currently we have multiple LB options.

 

[Zeberdi]

See my top line. I think in the case of Pervis, fatigue is playing as big a part.

think you missed the nuance/poor explanation of my post, I think the starting 11 are fit (I realise re Ferdi and Igor), but all the team are training at such a high level of intensity, that other injuries occur due to fatigue/being knackered/over worked.

Poorly explained. I certainly wasn’t suggesting that currently we have multiple LB options.

No worries. I was agreeing with you re Pervis but suggesting his condition is related to recent injury history.

As for ‘nuance’ I didn’t ’miss’ anything tbf because I wasn’t talking about the rest of the squad- my post that you initially quoted was a response to GB’s about our Left Back weakness and to which I was specifically referring.

I think the additional points you make about injury in general and training intensity (that weren’t related to my initial comments) are fair.

 

[Triggaaar]

Would you back him to work it out with actual money?

I will, if you're happy to take a bet

 

[EliasTaproot]

Easy to forget how good Hinshelwood was at right back last season. He was that good he was being touted as a possible future England RB. Definitely one who’s struggling with this system.
Are we blaming the defence for Bart’s blundering behaviour to?

At the very least I would suggest playing behind a constantly changing back four or five or three due to injuries and suspensions isn't good for a young goalkeepers confidence.

 

[American Seagle]

Easy to forget how good Hinshelwood was at right back last season. He was that good he was being touted as a possible future England RB. Definitely one who’s struggling with this system.
Are we blaming the defence for Bart’s blundering behaviour to?

On what planet or utterly mad reality are you in to think Hinshelwood has struggled this season in the slightest?
He has been a consistent performer all year and has looked as comfortable and solid as he did last year.

 

[BadFish]

On what planet or utterly mad reality are you in to think Hinshelwood has struggled this season in the slightest?
He has been a consistent performer all year and has looked as comfortable and solid as he did last year.

What you do is . . set and fix your opinion and then shape or omit any evidence to fit it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

On what planet or utterly mad reality are you in to think Hinshelwood has struggled this season in the slightest?
He has been a consistent performer all year and has looked as comfortable and solid as he did last year.

He looked neither comfortable nor solid on his own in midfield at Nottingham Forest. He was hung out to dry by Fab there.


If you want stats you can compare a player's seasons using the Premier League comparison tool. Attacking wise, Jack's goals per minute and shooting accuracy were way better under RDZ despite fewer games (12 last season, 29 this).

Teamplay isn't measured per minute or per game but it's broadly similar between the two coaches.

Defensively he had more interceptions per game and fewer tackles per game under RDZ. He's conceded around 1.4 goals per game under both coaches.

Remember though this is just Premier League. JH had two Europa League games last season.

So, overall he's had pretty similar seasons albeit he's played more this season as not injured, was more effective in attack under RDZ and had to play on his own in midfield against a side with the pace of Usain Bolt.

 

[warmleyseagull]

End of the day the season has been defined by two things IMO:

1. Not beating crap teams. At the very least, we should have 4 points from the Wolves H (they were crap at the time) and Leicester A games having thrown away two goal leads in last few minutes. 4 more points would make Europe likely;

2. The defence. Only Wolves above the bottom 5 have conceded more. The 7-0 was an outlier but conceded at least two in the last 5 games. I put that down to injury big time (Webster, Kadioglu, Lamptey, Dunk) and injury/loss of form (Pervis) but also that the 'buy everything in the sweet shop' binge last summer seemed to forget the case for defence, with only Ferdi bought. Neither of these can be laid at FH's door.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

End of the day the season has been defined by two things IMO:

1. Not beating crap teams. At the very least, we should have 4 points from the Wolves H (they were crap at the time) and Leicester A games having thrown away two goal leads in last few minutes. 4 more points would make Europe likely;

2. The defence. Only Wolves above the bottom 5 have conceded more. The 7-0 was an outlier but conceded at least two in the last 5 games. I put that down to injury big time (Webster, Kadioglu, Lamptey, Dunk) and injury/loss of form (Pervis) but also that the 'buy everything in the sweet shop' binge last summer seemed to forget the case for defence, with only Ferdi bought. Neither of these can be laid at FH's door.

Has it not also been defined by impressive wins again top half half PL teams?

 

[darkwolf666]

And if he admits that it was a good result on Saturday you'll think less of him?

I don't think I'll be disappointed - unless I've missed him saying it was a good win!

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

He looked neither comfortable nor solid on his own in midfield at Nottingham Forest. He was hung out to dry by Fab there.


If you want stats you can compare a player's seasons using the Premier League comparison tool. Attacking wise, Jack's goals per minute and shooting accuracy were way better under RDZ despite fewer games (12 last season, 29 this).

View attachment 200792

Teamplay isn't measured per minute or per game but it's broadly similar between the two coaches.
View attachment 200793

Defensively he had more interceptions per game and fewer tackles per game under RDZ. He's conceded around 1.4 goals per game under both coaches.

View attachment 200794
Remember though this is just Premier League. JH had two Europa League games last season.

So, overall he's had pretty similar seasons albeit he's played more this season as not injured, was more effective in attack under RDZ and had to play on his own in midfield against a side with the pace of Usain Bolt.

Under RDZ Hinsh played as an inverted full back and got to spend a lot of time with a bit of freedom in more central positions. He was often the spare man because of the tactical set up and because opposition did not see him as a threat. He didn’t have to do a great deal of 1v1 defending but when he did, he never really looked convincing with it (which is totally fair).

When he’s played full back this year, it’s been in much more of the traditional sense of the role. He’s had to do more defending and still doesn’t look entirely comfortable with it (which is partly why Wieffer has gone there). I doubt it was ever the intention for him to have played as many minutes at right back as he has this season, but injuries have forced it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Under RDZ Hinsh played as an inverted full back and got to spend a lot of time with a bit of freedom in more central positions. He was often the spare man because of the tactical set up and because opposition did not see him as a threat. He didn’t have to do a great deal of 1v1 defending but when he did, he never really looked convincing with it (which is totally fair).

When he’s played full back this year, it’s been in much more of the traditional sense of the role. He’s had to do more defending and still doesn’t look entirely comfortable with it (which is partly why Wieffer has gone there). I doubt it was ever the intention for him to have played as many minutes at right back as he has this season, but injuries have forced it.

True and good observations.

I think partly what led to my frustrated thread on Saturday afternoon was the discrepancy between the two sides of our formation. Despite two newish partnerships we looked solid and threatening on our right with Wieffer and Solly, but open and disorganised on the left.