[Politics] The Labour Government

[Herr Tubthumper]

That's sophistry. If a disabled person, and this includes all sorts of disability including anxiety, is eligible for PIP, the government will pay that money direct to the Motability to pay for the car. And, for the record, PIP is funded by taxpayer's money.

Te problem isn't that disabled people are getting money for cars, it's that people who are not disabled are getting them. I realise that one in six people nowadays are officially disabled, but (at least some of us believe) that that's because the definition of disability has been widened, not because people are sicker than ever before.

We’re losing sight of my original point, which is that @Moshe Gariani post is bull shit. At the very least, how on earth does this 17 years of age “acquaintance” know that in 4 years time he get a car. Further more it’s not “from the state”.

And why 21? There’s no lower limit if you hold a full license.

It’s bullshit, plain and simple. I can’t be anything else can it?

I see the poster has now gone silent…..

 

[dsr-burnley]

You really don’t understand how the mobility section of the PIP assessment works if you really believe people without a disability are eligible for a Motability vehicle. Or you don’t believe the “not all disabilities are visible” maxim.

The reason that there are over a million people claiming benefits for anxiety nowadays whereas fifty years ago there were none, is not because fifty years ago no-one was anxious. It's because the definition of disability has been widened.

30% of children this year had extra time to take their exams because they were adjudged to be mentally handicapped or mentally ill in some way. This is not because there is vastly more mental handicap or illness around than ever before, it is because the definition of "normal" is getting more and more restricted and the definition of "mentally ill" is widening.

 

[chip]

I think people understand perfectly how difficult it is for people to get disability benefits. In fact, I have knew someone in her early 60's who was coached by one of her friends specifically how to do so on a phone assessment. Including 'can you wait a minute while I switch to loudspeaker as I can't hold up the phone to my head any longer.'

That's not what the goverment thinks, it thinks fraud in PIP claims is 0.0% as said earlier on this thread: https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...ndence-payment-overpayments-and-underpayments

So NO ONE is getting a mobility vehicle who is not entitled to have one.

 

[darkwolf666]

The reason that there are over a million people claiming benefits for anxiety nowadays whereas fifty years ago there were none, is not because fifty years ago no-one was anxious. It's because the definition of disability has been widened.

30% of children this year had extra time to take their exams because they were adjudged to be mentally handicapped or mentally ill in some way. This is not because there is vastly more mental handicap or illness around than ever before, it is because the definition of "normal" is getting more and more restricted and the definition of "mentally ill" is widening.

You sound like my mother in law, when she says ”we didn’t have any autistic / ADHD / dyslexic, etc. children when I was at school”…

It’s a shame also that you throw in words like handicap, normal and ill so readily and as apparent disparagement or insult - I thought those day were long gone!

 

[darkwolf666]

That's not what the goverment thinks, it thinks fraud in PIP claims is 0.0% as said earlier on this thread: https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...ndence-payment-overpayments-and-underpayments

So NO ONE is getting a mobility vehicle who is not entitled to have one.

View attachment 198727

Yep, that was what I was alluding to before - statistically zero fraud…!

Rishi Sunak started the ball rolling regarding PIP fraud and shamefully Labour have picked up the ball and ran with it.

On the other hand, Universal Credit, which pretty much everyone who gets a benefit is being forced onto, has massive fraud levels… coincidentally, when this article was written, around £5bn a year. Maybe that’s where the saving should be made and not on an easy target like those with disabilities.

Universal credit fraud costs taxpayers more than £5bn

About 13% of universal credit claims were fraudulent, compared with 3% for all benefits.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The reason that there are over a million people claiming benefits for anxiety nowadays whereas fifty years ago there were none, is not because fifty years ago no-one was anxious. It's because the definition of disability has been widened.

30% of children this year had extra time to take their exams because they were adjudged to be mentally handicapped or mentally ill in some way. This is not because there is vastly more mental handicap or illness around than ever before, it is because the definition of "normal" is getting more and more restricted and the definition of "mentally ill" is widening.

Not only do you not understand how the mobility section of the PIP assessment works, you don’t seem to be able to understand or comprehend anything @darkwolf666 has written. Even when he/she explicitly states mobility you reply by waffling on about anxiety being a disability.

You points about mental health are certainly an area for discussion….but why not try and stick to the case in hand?

 

[SouthSaxon]

That's sophistry. If a disabled person, and this includes all sorts of disability including anxiety, is eligible for PIP, the government will pay that money direct to the Motability to pay for the car. And, for the record, PIP is funded by taxpayer's money.

Te problem isn't that disabled people are getting money for cars, it's that people who are not disabled are getting them. I realise that one in six people nowadays are officially disabled, but (at least some of us believe) that that's because the definition of disability has been widened, not because people are sicker than ever before.

Others have already said it, but it’s worth echoing - this is absolute nonsense.

Motability is only available to those who receive the mobility component of PIP.

The mobility component of PIP covers assessment of people’s ability to leave the house, walk unaided for specific distances, find their own way around without support. A combination of these is required for eligibility.

Lots of people who receive PIP are not eligible for the mobility component.

 

[darkwolf666]

Others have already said it, but it’s worth echoing - this is absolute nonsense.

Motability is only available to those who receive the mobility component of PIP.

The mobility component of PIP covers assessment of people’s ability to leave the house, walk unaided for specific distances, find their own way around without support. A combination of these is required for eligibility.

Lots of people who receive PIP are not eligible for the mobility component.

...and perversely, lots of people eligible for the mobility component of PIP aren't eligible for a Blue Badge, as you only qualify for that if you score the required points in the "moving around" section of the PIP mobility questions..!

 

[fly high]

Or, and here‘s the bit some people don’t want to face, since Covid there are MORE sick people! Who would have thought it after a pandemic, eh!

A friend who has long covid and is on a number of relevant groups has told me that there are a number of people who have very debilitating conditions but have been refused help. People who have had to give up work including doctors and nurses.

 

[fly high]

...and perversely, lots of people eligible for the mobility component of PIP aren't eligible for a Blue Badge, as you only qualify for that if you score the required points in the "moving around" section of the PIP mobility questions..!

Seems the 'moving around ' part is very wide and doesn't only cover what most people consider.

Who can get a Blue Badge?

www.gov.uk

 

[darkwolf666]

Seems the 'moving around ' part is very wide and doesn't only cover what most people consider.

Who can get a Blue Badge?

www.gov.uk

You're doing it again, making open ended statements! "Most people consider". Consider what? What do most people consider in relation to the PIP assessment, moving around and the Blue Badge application.

 

[fly high]

You're doing it again, making open ended statements! "Most people consider". Consider what? What do most people consider in relation to the PIP assessment, moving around and the Blue Badge application.

Ok, from what you said one could think it only applied to people with physical impediment but the criteria is much wider than that.

Edit. I'm not trying to make any particular point just show disability is very wide ranging and is not confined to physical disability. I make no judgement on it, that is for more expert people than me.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Others have already said it, but it’s worth echoing - this is absolute nonsense.

Motability is only available to those who receive the mobility component of PIP.

The mobility component of PIP covers assessment of people’s ability to leave the house, walk unaided for specific distances, find their own way around without support. A combination of these is required for eligibility.

Lots of people who receive PIP are not eligible for the mobility component.

29% of people whose main disability is anxiety and depression, get the enhanced motability payment. So it obviously isn't complete nonsense.

Claim PIP for Anxiety and Depression (Mixed)

Get the benefits you're entitled to: help with personal independence payment (PIP), universal credit (UC), employment and support allowance (ESA),disability living allowance (DLA). Claims, assessments, reviews, appeals.

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk

 

[dsr-burnley]

You sound like my mother in law, when she says ”we didn’t have any autistic / ADHD / dyslexic, etc. children when I was at school”…

It’s a shame also that you throw in words like handicap, normal and ill so readily and as apparent disparagement or insult - I thought those day were long gone!

So did I. Saying that 30% of children are adjudged to be mentally ill is not disparaging of the children who genuinely are mentally ill - it's disparaging of those who take perfectly normal children and declare them to be mentally ill. How else should I have phrased the paragraph to avoid offending you?

 

[darkwolf666]

So did I. Saying that 30% of children are adjudged to be mentally ill is not disparaging of the children who genuinely are mentally ill - it's disparaging of those who take perfectly normal children and declare them to be mentally ill. How else should I have phrased the paragraph to avoid offending you?

You're still not getting it, are you, what conditions are you referring to as being "mental illness (whatever that means)"?

Who is declaring children "mentally ill"?

Who decides what's "normal"?

The 30% is not about "mental illness" - and is about children who need more time to sit an exam, no mention of it being exclusively due to mental health.

Funny isn't it, over time, probably generations, it was realised that some people needed more time to process things, as otherwise intelligent people just "flunked exams". Clearly, you would like to go back to those days. What % would be acceptable to you?

 

[SouthSaxon]

29% of people whose main disability is anxiety and depression, get the enhanced motability payment. So it obviously isn't complete nonsense.

Claim PIP for Anxiety and Depression (Mixed)

Get the benefits you're entitled to: help with personal independence payment (PIP), universal credit (UC), employment and support allowance (ESA),disability living allowance (DLA). Claims, assessments, reviews, appeals.

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk

Which means their condition is so debilitating that they are effectively housebound without support.

You do understand that anxiety and depression are not the same thing as “a bit nervous and sad”?

 

[darkwolf666]

Ok, from what you said one could think it only applied to people with physical impediment but the criteria is much wider than that.

Edit. I'm not trying to make any particular point just show disability is very wide ranging and is not confined to physical disability. I make no judgement on it, that is for more expert people than me.

Got you. And yes you can be awarded the mobility side of PIP for anxiety and mental health challenges, though that alone won't qualify you for a Blue Badge.

Disabilities, as we are all aware, come in different shapes and sizes, with some more visible than others!

 

[darkwolf666]

Which means their condition is so debilitating that they are effectively housebound without support.

You do understand that anxiety and depression are not the same thing as “a bit nervous and sad”?

My wife was diagnosed with severe anxiety and depression following her cancer diagnosis and then Covid coming along at the same time, as a clinically extremely vulnerable person, spending March until August 2020 shielding (in isolation), except for medical appointments.

She believed that if she went out she would die, not just from Covid, but she felt that every car that drove by was going to mount the pavement and run us down, or they would lean out of their car and shoot us dead. She even thought that any helicopter that flew over our house was going to do us harm.

It was totally irrational, and when she told me about it I actually laughed out loud, that was until I realised she was deadly serious!

She has been prescribed with anti-depressants, which have taken away the irrational side of things, for now, but she still struggles and hates people!

Mental health is far to easily played down or dismissed by those that don't understand.*

*yes, some people play the system and use it to their benefit.
**my wife used to believe that people should just "pull themselves together"...

 

[SouthSaxon]

My wife was diagnosed with severe anxiety and depression following her cancer diagnosis and then Covid coming along at the same time, as a clinically extremely vulnerable person, spending March until August 2020 shielding (in isolation), except for medical appointments.

She believed that if she went out she would die, not just from Covid, but she felt that every car that drove by was going to mount the pavement and run us down, or they would lean out of their car and shoot us dead. She even thought that any helicopter that flew over our house was going to do us harm.

It was totally irrational, and when she told me about it I actually laughed out loud, that was until I realised she was deadly serious!

She has been prescribed with anti-depressants, which have taken away the irrational side of things, for now, but she still struggles and hates people!

Mental health is far to easily played down or dismissed by those that don't understand.*

*yes, some people play the system and use it to their benefit.
**my wife used to believe that people should just "pull themselves together"...

That’s a tough situation, I’m sorry you’ve both had to go through that.

My partner is a mental health nurse, having had her own struggles in the past, so I know how hard it is for people who desperately need support to gain access to it. I’ve also seen first hand what can be achieved when the right support is provided.

There is far too much ignorance and stigma still surrounding mental health.

 

[darkwolf666]

That’s a tough situation, I’m sorry you’ve both had to go through that.

My partner is a mental health nurse, having had her own struggles in the past, so I know how hard it is for people who desperately need support to gain access to it. I’ve also seen first hand what can be achieved when the right support is provided.

There is far too much ignorance and stigma still surrounding mental health.

Support can be very much a postcode lottery. After being referred by our GP here in Kent, my wife was offered 6 sessions of CBT, with the advice that if she needed more, she could reapply!!!

Even going through Macmillan cancer charity she only got offered the same 6 week schedule of "chats".

To those that elect to, mental health is the new bad back - as in a shirkers excuse, as it can't be seen.

I really thought we had moved on though, apparently not it seems!