[Politics] The Labour Government

[WATFORD zero]

Bit like the cookie/immigrant picture that does the rounds...!

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But it's not just the immigrants who are after your cookie, is it. There's the disabled, people on Benefits (whether working or not), those bloody unions demanding pay rises, workers in the public sector and the civil service, that huge inefficient NHS etc etc

When you try and split one little cookie that many ways, is it any wonder people have to turn to Johnson, Farage, Trump etc to protect their own little bit of that single cookie.

But I'm sure you didn't come here for a lecture in communism

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But it's not just the immigrants who are after your cookie. There's the disabled, people on Benefits (whether working or not), those bloody unions demanding pay rises, workers in the public sector and the civil service, that huge inefficient NHS etc etc

When you try and split one little cookie that many ways, is it any wonder people turn to Johnson, Farage, Trump etc to protect their own little bit of that single cookie.

But I'm sure you didn't come here for a lecture in communism

How dare those nurses dance in the corridors when members (cronies) of the House of Lords get £350 a day just for turning up.

 

[fly high]

How dare those nurses dance in the corridors when members (cronies) of the House of Lords get £350 a day just for turning up.

All they need to do is sign in, they can then bugger off and still get the money.

 

[dsr-burnley]

It’s also worth noting that Motorbility is a self-funding charity. Even if someone does object to a specific case (I’d hope no one objects to the general principle of this organisation), no tax payer’s money is involved. So it’s not provided “by the state.”

That's sophistry. If a disabled person, and this includes all sorts of disability including anxiety, is eligible for PIP, the government will pay that money direct to the Motability to pay for the car. And, for the record, PIP is funded by taxpayer's money.

Te problem isn't that disabled people are getting money for cars, it's that people who are not disabled are getting them. I realise that one in six people nowadays are officially disabled, but (at least some of us believe) that that's because the definition of disability has been widened, not because people are sicker than ever before.

 

[beorhthelm]

PIP fraud is so low it is stastically counted as ZERO!

means detection of fraud is poor, or threshold very low. budget for PIP has doubled in 5 years, that's an awful lot more claims.

 

[Bodian]

To be pedantic only 50% of 'The people' are thicker than the average person. But given you only need 30-35% in order to win an election or referendum your point still stands.

To be really pedantic, if we take the one person in the middle of the 67.5m people in Britian as the 'average person' then only 49.99999926031434% are thicker than the average person!

 

[darkwolf666]

means detection of fraud is poor, or threshold very low. budget for PIP has doubled in 5 years, that's an awful lot more claims.

Or, and here‘s the bit some people don’t want to face, since Covid there are MORE sick people! Who would have thought it after a pandemic, eh!

 

[Weststander]

I can quite honestly say, as "parent" to two who will be affected by these changes, I will not be voting for Labour at the next GE. Targeting disabled people is about as low as it gets...

Won't be voting Tory, or Reform (obviously) so looks like Lib Dems might get me vote...

Have the figures/criteria been explicitly released yet? James O’Brien (who’s very much on the side of the genuine claimants), commented that it was vague at this stage with little detail by Kendall yesterday.

 

[darkwolf666]

That's sophistry. If a disabled person, and this includes all sorts of disability including anxiety, is eligible for PIP, the government will pay that money direct to the Motability to pay for the car. And, for the record, PIP is funded by taxpayer's money.

Te problem isn't that disabled people are getting money for cars, it's that people who are not disabled are getting them. I realise that one in six people nowadays are officially disabled, but (at least some of us believe) that that's because the definition of disability has been widened, not because people are sicker than ever before.

You really don’t understand how the mobility section of the PIP assessment works if you really believe people without a disability are eligible for a Motability vehicle. Or you don’t believe the “not all disabilities are visible” maxim.

 

[WATFORD zero]

means detection of fraud is poor, or threshold very low. budget for PIP has doubled in 5 years, that's an awful lot more claims.

Well if your theory that detection of fraud is the reason and causes this, you would have thought that maybe just one of these huge numbers of 'clampdowns' on benefits that have been going on for the last 50+ years over various Governments of various colours would have thrown up a few convictions, wouldn't you

 

[Weststander]

Well if your theory that detection of fraud is the reason and causes this, you would have thought that maybe just one of these huge numbers of 'clampdowns' on benefits that have been going on for the last 50+ years over various Governments of various colours would have thrown up a few convictions, wouldn't you

Genuine question. Is this the same as tax fraud/evasion, where HMRC deem it unnecessary in resource terms to take it through to criminal proceedings, hence that’s very rare too? Instead recovery, penalties and the evasion is brought to an end.

 

[SouthSaxon]

Genuine question. Is this the same as tax fraud/evasion, where HMRC deem it unnecessary in resource terms to take it through to criminal proceedings, hence that’s very rare too? Instead recovery, penalties and the evasion is brought to an end.

Benefits are paid out, taxes are paid in. If DWP detects fraud, it has the option of stopping those payments - HMRC has to recover every penny.

I don’t know to what level it’s worth paying for an investigation - the flip side is that false positives cost lives.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Genuine question. Is this the same as tax fraud/evasion, where HMRC deem it unnecessary in resource terms to take it through to criminal proceedings, hence that’s very rare too? Instead recovery, penalties and the evasion is brought to an end.

I don't have the figures at hand (and I'm not going to bother looking them up now). There will obviously be a tiny minority that will take the piss out of the benefit system, but it pales into insignificance compared to the millions (a huge proportion of whom are working really hard) who actually need the benefit system to survive.

A bit like the 30K immigrants arriving across the channel causing the housing shortages, NHS pressures etc etc and not the 1.2 million who come in through normal invitations, but to an even greater degree.

As I said above, I don't have the figures to hand, but as we both know, the money spent chasing benefit fraud is hugely and inversely out of all proportion to that which is spent trying to recover tax fraud, even though the figures involved in benefit fraud are a tiny proportion of those involved in tax fraud.

So no, HMRC commit huge resources to benefit fraud and yet convict and recover very little. Me cynical ? As if

 

[Super Steve Earle]

I don't think people understand how difficult it is for people to get disability benefits and how disturbing the process can be for individuals and families. That's before they can even appreciate how complicated life can be for disabled people in the first place. Many who don't achieve 4 points in any one PIP criteria are now being gaslight by the government, stay classy Labour.

I think people understand perfectly how difficult it is for people to get disability benefits. In fact, I have knew someone in her early 60's who was coached by one of her friends specifically how to do so on a phone assessment. Including 'can you wait a minute while I switch to loudspeaker as I can't hold up the phone to my head any longer.'

 

[jackanada]

All they need to do is sign in, they can then bugger off and still get the money.

Don't forget the expense of travelling there... Oh hold on they claim for that. Turn up two days in a row I think you can claim a hotel for the night too.
Won't anyone think of poor Lord Bassam travelling first class up to London and having to pop in for a heavily subsided gourmet meal just so he's got enough cash in his account to cover the opera tickets.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I think people understand perfectly how difficult it is for people to get disability benefits. In fact, I have knew someone in her early 60's who was coached by one of her friends specifically how to do so on a phone assessment. Including 'can you wait a minute while I switch to loudspeaker as I can't hold up the phone to my head any longer.'

Coaching people to get benefits is a growing business apparently.

 

[darkwolf666]

No, as far as I can tell there is a lot still to be worked out. However, this is still another case of punching down, attacking easy targets who can’t fight back, as they are, it seems, perceived as getting easy money and flash cars, apparently!

 

[darkwolf666]

I am well aware of how motability works, my sister-in-law had one but the amount she gave up was nowhere near what it cost.

What do you mean “nowhere near what it cost”?

 

[darkwolf666]

I think people understand perfectly how difficult it is for people to get disability benefits. In fact, I have knew someone in her early 60's who was coached by one of her friends specifically how to do so on a phone assessment. Including 'can you wait a minute while I switch to loudspeaker as I can't hold up the phone to my head any longer.'

They don’t hand out disability benefits purely on the strength of a coached phone call. The person making the claim, assuming it is PIP you are referring to, will have had to fill out an extensive form, detailing all the health professionals they see, their health conditions and how they affect their ability to carry out normal day to day activities.

The assessor making the call will have read all the information and made standard checks with the named health professionals re the health concerns. The claimant will have had their answers scored against the main descriptors, for both care and mobility.

As in any system, there will be some that can play it, and we all hear stories, but evidentially the levels of fraud attributed to PIP is very low, unlike Universal Credit!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Coaching people to get benefits is a growing business apparently.

Report the CAB then as most people go there. Who has enough money to pay for advice?