[Albion] The BIG keeper debate

[Bry Nylon]

Have you watched him at all for Chelsea? From what I have seen he has been pretty poor and my Chelsea supporting friends say he is a liability.

I’ve only seen highlights, to be fair. Which by definition will include shots he’s saved plus those he’s let in, so I don’t have a fully rounded view of his time at Chelsea.

I still reckon he’s better than either of our current options.

 

[Farehamseagull]

Definitely go with one.

I don’t care which one, I prefer Steele as a keeper at the moment but appreciate Bart is the future. But just pick one and go with it. The rotation is not working for either of them.

 

[WhingForPresident]

I think the number of mistakes Bart is making is because he isn't getting a good run of games. It's not easy playing the way we do, and the only way he is going to improve is by playing more regularly.

Having said that, Steele is clearly better at playing the role right now, so do you sacrifice having the better option in to give Bart time, even though he is more likely to cost us a goal? He's a better shot-stopper and a more commanding presence, but is that enough when distribution is one of the key elements of our style?

IMO healthy competition for the number 1 shirt should be encouraged. I can't get my head around a goalkeeper potentially having the game of their life but knowing there's nothing they can do to keep their spot.

 

[AstroSloth]

You're just making that up.

Even if you aren't, is that really statistically significant, or just chance.

I'm not making it up lmao. The stats are from fbref.com, a great source for statistics.

Across 38 games Steele would on average concede 5.4 more goals than Verbruggen.

That's not an insignificant amount at all.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

One keeper makes a fluff against Palace and a MASSIVE bed wet ensues.

Meanwhile, days earlier, the other keeper was dismissed as 'not good enough'.

Calm down, dears.

RDZ knows best.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm not making it up lmao. The stats are from fbref.com, a great source for statistics.

Across 38 games Steele would on average concede 5.4 more goals than Verbruggen.

That's not an insignificant amount at all.

Per game? We'll loose!

Per season.....irrelevant. Less than one more goal per game. Not statistically significant. A drop of piss left on a shaken cock. Not enough less gin to have kept me below the legal driving limit. Too few extra chips to have me looking back, sadly, through the chippy window, at the fat bastard who was given extra.

 

[mothy]

One keeper makes a fluff against Palace and a MASSIVE bed wet ensues.

Meanwhile, days earlier, the other keeper was dismissed as 'not good enough'.

Calm down, dears.

RDZ knows best.

More than 1 mistake in more than 1 game. He's played 8 games & has made mistakes for 4 goals + he's passed it to the opposition strikers in other games (& was lucky not to concede more)

 

[GT49er]

I’ve only seen highlights, to be fair. Which by definition will include shots he’s saved plus those he’s let in, so I don’t have a fully rounded view of his time at Chelsea.

I still reckon he’s better than either of our current options.

So do I - but I realise that is an unacceptable view to be expressed on NSC. He was dropped, responded with two superb performances (against Chelsea and at Wembley) only to be told, no, sod it, you're the number 2 to Steele. Incredible that some people can't understand why he was pissed off, and decided he was a dickhead.

One keeper makes a fluff against Palace and a MASSIVE bed wet ensues.

Meanwhile, days earlier, the other keeper was dismissed as 'not good enough'.

Calm down, dears.

RDZ knows best.

Alternatively, in 10, 15 or 20 year's time, when today has become history, history's judgement might be that, "RDZ knows best" is re-written as "de Zerbi's first mistake". NSC heresy now, I realise - but are we really that much better for dumping Sanchez? I've yet to see incontrovertible evidence.

 

[jakarta]

I think we should approach Surrey for Ben Foakes myself...

 

[Eeyore]

I think we should approach Surrey for Ben Foakes myself...

And then drop him because, despite being the best keeper in the land, he doesn't score enough.

 

[BadFish]

We are an attacking team who doesn't score enough goals. Injuries and lack of squad size in certain areas are the problems at the moment.

Rotate for me.

 

[aolstudios]

No, i think we all pretty much fall into the same category. We like Steele, he's a great guy, great with his feet. He doesnt make mistakes very often. But he almost never makes worldie saves, which almost every other keeper makes. And we want that.

But the way we play atm, being very, very good with his feet (which Steele is) is as important. Maybe more?..

 

[peterward]

One keeper makes a fluff against Palace and a MASSIVE bed wet ensues.

Meanwhile, days earlier, the other keeper was dismissed as 'not good enough'.

Calm down, dears.

RDZ knows best.

Verbruggen or Sanchez?!!

 

[peterward]

This idea Steele has been exemplary since his introduction simply isn’t true. If it was, he wouldn’t complete less passes than our other keeper.

I agree that Steele isn't exemplary with the gloves, but not quite sure how "less passes than our other keeper" (if that's true) has any relevance to anything?

For a start, how often someone passes to the keeper would affect that stat, and secondly if say Steele plays one good "break the lines" pass, which he's done a few times, and Verbruggen goes sideways, Dunk, Verbuggen, JPVH, Verbruggen etc, that doesn't prove he's better or Steele worse, just by number of passes?

 

[Guinness Boy]

So if we don’t sign defenders and a pivot, which continues to leave us overly exposed, you want to put the poorer keeper in goal because he can play a bit more (even though his numbers are worse than Bart’s)?

That’s a straw man. I want us to sign a game ready DM, a new right back and cover for Estupinian. We’re conceding goals because of our outfield players.

 

[Guinness Boy]

If - in a parallel universe - I could pick our keeper for the Spurs game, I’d be handing the shirt to….Sanchez.

Given our current goalkeeping options, the fact that he’s no longer at the club still feels to me like an unnecessary act of self harm.

Jason Steele is statistically the worst shot stopping keeper in the league.

He has conceded 3.4 more goals than he should have based on post shot xG, at a rate of -0.38 per 90 minutes.

Verbruggen on the other hand has conceded 1.9 more goals than he should have, at a rate of -0.21 per 90.

Bear in mind they both have the same post shot xG per shot on target so are facing a similar difficulty of shot on average.

Shot xG only tells you a tiny fraction of the story. It doesn’t include successful passes, it doesn’t show how the chance came about or who the player shooting was (Kane and Bissouma from exactly the same spot would undoubtedly end in different outcomes). It doesn’t count assists for. Steele has Premier League assists to his name.

It doesn’t take into account the score in the game or how open the defence is. So many times this season we’ve been chasing a game. When we had to shut up shop at Forest we did so successfully (with Bart making an excellent save).

Anyone calling for Sanchez to return really wants us to change how we play. Sanchez wasn’t binned off because he “fell out” with De Zerbi but because he couldn’t play the distribution patterns and had poor discipline and time keeping.

All the time RDZ is in charge, how a keeper plays out will be more important than their shot xG. We play some of the most exciting football in Europe when we’re on it. That comes with risk.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

But the way we play atm, being very, very good with his feet (which Steele is) is as important. Maybe more?..

But also the way we play we tend to concede very good chances on the break. When those goals go in they change games. A great shot stopping keeper keeps us in games longer. We have to get clean sheets to move up the table.

 

[sagaman]

Football 365 has Bart ranked at 16 and Jason at 19 in goalkeeper rankings for 2023/24 . Well outside top keeper rankings we should aspire to.

Squawka has ranked Jason as 4 in best distributors.

I agree one keeper for EPL and the other for other competitions

 

[Barnet Seagull]

The rotation complaints aren't relevant imo. Bart just hasn't quite got the pace/intensity of the Premier league yet.
He will.

 

[Flounce]

I have no problem with the rotation of keepers but I do have a problem with us starting games like we are already exhausted, mogadoned up and being so slow and toothless in attack with shit final balls until we go a goal down these days. PLEASE can we go back to starting games with intensity.