[News] Train strikes ahead

[studio150]

Thanks for that, an interesting read.

‘The proposal – of just 4% – was clearly not designed to be accepted as inflation is still running north of 10%'

With inflation now at less than 5% that offer doesn't seem quite so bad now.

Have the members voted on it recently?

I take it that maths and economics were not your strong subjects at school.

From your comments I can only assume that you believe Rishi Sunak's comments that lower inflation is a tax cut for workers.

 

[jackalbion]

Thanks for that, an interesting read.

‘The proposal – of just 4% – was clearly not designed to be accepted as inflation is still running north of 10%'

With inflation now at less than 5% that offer doesn't seem quite so bad now.

Have the members voted on it recently?

No, if I was in charge of the railways (which despite some people thinking I am, I am sadly, not) I would let the unions negotiate locally with the companies rather than the RDG. Its quite clear the RDG is a middle man that isn't really providing any impact IMO, the government are increasingly playing silly games with the whole system.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I take it that maths and economics were not your strong subjects at school.

From your comments I can only assume that you believe Rishi Sunak's comments that lower inflation is a tax cut for workers.

A level Economics actually, thanks for asking.

IMO an offer of 4% now (when inflation is circa 5%) is better than an offer of 4% when inflation was at 10%.

It's better - I didn't say it's acceptable.

 

[studio150]

A level Economics actually, thanks for asking.

IMO an offer of 4% now (when inflation is circa 5%) is better than an offer of 4% when inflation was at 10%.

It's better - I didn't say it's acceptable.

its not better given their wages have been eroded by the 10% inflation while there was no increase in pay.

So in simple terms £100 + 4% pay increase = £104 But inflation 10% so would need £100 + 10% to stay even =£110

Wages still £100 but inflation has 10% increase and 4% increase so to stay even need £110.40

So rather than being £6 below stay even,, the offer is now £10.40 below stay even

Please explain how this is better.

 

[schmunk]

Fancy falling for that worn out lie.

The average train driver's salary is £42,000.

What's your source for this assertion?

 

[Guinness Boy]

No, if I was in charge of the railways (which despite some people thinking I am, I am sadly, not) I would let the unions negotiate locally with the companies rather than the RDG. Its quite clear the RDG is a middle man that isn't really providing any impact IMO, the government are increasingly playing silly games with the whole system.

Wasn't this supposed to be the whole point of privatisation? Competition between TOCs can only really happen when they are allowed to negotiate pay deals themselves. At present the salary cost base per FTE must be almost identical, meaning that they have to find cheaper ticketing from 'somewhere else' (more stops, less glamorous routes, fewer trains, no guards on board).

What we have now seems to be British Rail but with any profit going to private companies (which are often owned by foreign governments!).

 

[Colonel Mustard]

For some unions yes, I got a pay increase and improved terms and conditions.

I’m alright jack.

 

[nordicgod]

They offered 4% but with a whole list of giving up terms and conditions that train drivers have worked for the last 20 odd years to gain since privatisation , The rail delivery group which are the governments middle men gave this offer way back in April and since privatisation every TOC has different terms and conditions, eg some have maximum driving turns of 9hrs 30 and some have 9hrs 54, some have guards some are driver only , everyone is on different pay, some have Sundays in the week and some don’t as they are extra , so so so many different terms and conditions for every train operating company that the offer they put out will not work as it’s not British rail now . so the only way to deal with it is to deal individually with every TOC and the government know that so it won’t and will not work . If they offered 5% with no change to terms and conditions then this would all be over straight away .

If you are on 20k or 60k a year you live to your means , mortgages gone up , gas and electric gone up and food gone up , broadband and phone contracts went up by inflation and they were allowed to add a bonus 3.9% on top of that .

The way it works is the TOCS get paid each month by the government even if they run no trains at all that month . It’s a very strange operation

 

[Miximate]

Pyecombe P&R hopefully open !

 

[nordicgod]

Be nice for a park and ride over Eastbourne way. Pretty please

 

[Deadly Danson]

They offered 4% but with a whole list of giving up terms and conditions that train drivers have worked for the last 20 odd years to gain since privatisation , The rail delivery group which are the governments middle men gave this offer way back in April and since privatisation every TOC has different terms and conditions, eg some have maximum driving turns of 9hrs 30 and some have 9hrs 54, some have guards some are driver only , everyone is on different pay, some have Sundays in the week and some don’t as they are extra , so so so many different terms and conditions for every train operating company that the offer they put out will not work as it’s not British rail now . so the only way to deal with it is to deal individually with every TOC and the government know that so it won’t and will not work . If they offered 5% with no change to terms and conditions then this would all be over straight away .

If you are on 20k or 60k a year you live to your means , mortgages gone up , gas and electric gone up and food gone up , broadband and phone contracts went up by inflation and they were allowed to add a bonus 3.9% on top of that .

The way it works is the TOCS get paid each month by the government even if they run no trains at all that month . It’s a very strange operation

An excellent and true summary

 

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

I have got tickets via Thames link for Chelsea, does anyone know if I can use on southern if there is no Thames link ? Don’t fancy a fine.

 

[jackalbion]

I’m alright jack.

Someone asked what came out of it, funnily enough when I went on strike a full service ran, and I just had to make up for it afterwards, but it’s the principle of a union. Every time there’s a strike I have about 10 times more work to do, but I just get on with it. I earn a lot less than the figures quoted, I wonder if I earn less than you?

 

[HangletonGull]

Is southern ok for chelsea away? got a ticket to clapham and was planning on jumping on overground from there to imperial warf

 

[jackalbion]

Is southern ok for chelsea away? got a ticket to clapham and was planning on jumping on overground from there to imperial warf

Yes although there will be no Thameslink, so will be busier but a normal Sunday mostly.

 

[mile oak]

Am I correct in saying Brentford there will be trains Brighton to London and vice-versa but nothing on the Brighton to Lewes line? Haywards H to Lewes my be stuffed too but at least you can go vis Brighton albeit for a 7.30pm ko it will be mega busy with workers going home and the away fans coming down.

 

[essbee1]

I have got tickets via Thames link for Chelsea, does anyone know if I can use on southern if there is no Thames link ? Don’t fancy a fine.

On my numerous trips back up the smoke after matches where I've deliberately got on a train that I wasn't booked on, most ticket collectors are fine as long as you explain to them the reason. But as in life, you occasionally get the jobsworth who might kick up a fuss. The revenue protection 'gold tops' might also have a prob.

 

[mile oak]

I have got tickets via Thames link for Chelsea, does anyone know if I can use on southern if there is no Thames link ? Don’t fancy a fine.

I believe normally tickets are accepted across other services in these circumstances but lets face it the whole ticket fiasco is overly confusing and chaotic

 

[goldstone]

Those who work in the ticket offices haven't been made redundant and the public still have access to human beings.

The fact that ticket offices are being retained had nothing whatsoever to do with the strikes. And anyway, from what I read ticket office staff were going to be redeployed elsewhere (in customer facing positions) if that plan had gone ahead.

 

[goldstone]

The most recent offer to ASLEF was in April, and was derisory. Since then, they haven't even been offered anything, let alone been offered something that they can vote on or approve / reject.

Doesn't look too derisory to me:
A four-year TfW offer is for 8.9%, backdated to 1 April, taking drivers to £63,200, with another 7.9% in April 2024, lifting drivers' pay to £68,300, Aslef said. A further 4.1% in December 2024 will take drivers' pay to £71,000, which will increase in April 2025 by RPI inflation, the union said.17 May 2023

The most recent offer to ASLEF was in April, and was derisory. Since then, they haven't even been offered anything, let alone been offered something that they can vote on or approve / reject.

Doesn't look too derisory to me:
ASLEF has also had a fair and reasonable offer for members in England, that would take the average train drivers' salary from £60,000 to £65,000