[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[Eeyore]

That's good news. It's nice to know that they were only shooting dozens of bullets into babies, and not beheading them. Seen the Daily Telegraph (and I dare say other papers) this morning?

It doesn't take anything away from the murders, but it does tell us a lot about the media and I reference my earlier post. The media couldn't wait to publish that news- even though there was no independent confirmation. I would just wait for a group like Human Rights Watch to confirm it.

As for the Daily Telegraph. I have a subscription. I understand that they published a graphic picture I have chosen not to view. I would ask why they chose to publish it. Most of us are only too aware what such a scene would entail. But I know why they published it. To gather support for what is happening now.

In Palestine right now there will be suffering and vulnerable people on the brink of death. There are claims (unverified) that 400 odd children are dead as a result of the strikes. We can be sure that some will be. But these pictures would not be published in such a way as to draw attention in many parts of the press. We know why.

No innocent life is worth more than another. And if it is avoidable, and in this case the retaliation was, then they are both equally repugnant and worthy of condemnation. As I have said, there is no difference in the categorisation of cold blooded killing. An F16 and a militant's machine gun are the work of unfettered evil in equal measure.

 

[A1X]

Apologies if fixtures

 

[Hastings gull]

The fire bombing of Dresden was unnecessary. Germany was on it’s knees. That operation targeted civilians to break their will. It was wrong then and it’s wrong now.

Whilst you are right in that Germany was on its knees by then, you glibly state that it was unnecessary. Dresden was and still is an important rail hub, used at the time for transporting what material they could muster to bolster resistance against the advancing Russians. We now have hindsight, but do remember that intelligence at the time was rudimentary compared to today. The city was crammed with refugees fleeing the Russians, which counts for the high death toll, and was not known at the time by the Allies -how could it have been?

If you feel that bombing Gaza is unreasonable, and I can fully understand why folk would come to this conclusion, what do you suggest as an alternative, if Hamas's war capabilities are to be destroyed, or do you think that the Israelis should do nothing, because of the likelihood of civilian casualties. Hamas would love that.

 

[Krafty]

No innocent life is worth more than another. And if it is avoidable, and in this case the retaliation was, then they are both equally repugnant and worthy of condemnation. As I have said, there is no difference in the categorisation of cold blooded killing. An F16 and a militant's machine gun are the work of unfettered evil in equal measure.

This

EDIT: However, I understand the reasons for retaliation but do not agree with the manner it was conducted.

 

[Zeberdi]

Apologies if fixtures

Fact check: Did Iran fund Hamas’ attack on Israel with money freed by the US?

Republicans are criticizing the Biden administration after Hamas militants launched the deadliest attack on Israel in years.

www.poynter.org

 

[Bakero]

Fact check: Did Iran fund Hamas’ attack on Israel with money freed by the US?

Republicans are criticizing the Biden administration after Hamas militants launched the deadliest attack on Israel in years.

www.poynter.org

Wrong link?

 

[Bakero]

Apologies if fixtures

Haaretz: Why Did Netanyahu Want to Strengthen Hamas?

 

[Somethingdean]

I have nothing of substance to offer. I hope there will not be a genocide this weekend to add to the horrific massacres of this week but honestly, who knows at this point? The whole media landscape feels totally unfit for purpose. It's just all about petty point scoring, misinformation, propaganda and lies. Humanity is pretty rubbish isn't it.

 

[shingle]

The Israeli army have confirmed that the beheaded babies story is false. I have checked various news sources and cannot find any evidence to prove it is true.

I'll be kind with this one TB, you shouldn't be posting stuff like this, because you want it to be true.
No news agency BBC/Sky etc has backed it up. Did you not see the source and because of shit like this the Israelis have had to post images of this particular atrocity

 

[nicko31]

Haaretz: Why Did Netanyahu Want to Strengthen Hamas?

Bit Trumpian ..

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces | The Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Bakero]

I'll be kind with this one TB, you shouldn't be posting stuff like this, because you want it to be true.
No news agency BBC/Sky etc has backed it up. Did you not see the source and because of shit like this the Israelis have had to post images of this particular atrocity

Israel releases images of slain children to rally support after Hamas attack

Israel's government showed U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and NATO defence ministers graphic images of dead children and civilians on Thursday, saying they were killed by Palestinian group Hamas as it builds support for its response.

www.reuters.com

Were Israeli Babies Beheaded by Hamas Militants During Attack on Kfar Aza?

Here's what we know about the viral rumor spread by news media, the U.S president, and so on.

www.snopes.com

 

[Machiavelli]

When Hamas surrenders, then Palestine can get on with its life.

Hamas is Nazi Germany, small scale. They kill Jews, they kill homosexuals, they kill anyone they don't like. they don't have elections, they continually run small scale (ie. omly murdering one or two) incursions and rockets fired into Israel. They are evil. That, at least, I hope we can all agree on.

So what should be done to fight them? Should the UK have avoided bombing Germany because they didn't want to kill civilians? Should we have accepted the bombs and rockets fired into the UK and said "we are better than them, we don't need to fight back"? Should we have seen that Germans were short of food and sent them some over? No. And that was the general opinion at the time.

When the Nazis were removed, then Germany recovered. Germany wouldn't have recovered if the Nazi government had been allowed to continue ruling.

Nope. Hamas really isn't Nazi Germany, on whatever scale. Nazi Germany was a state, and an expansionary state. Palestine's lands are occupied, and they are denied state-hood. Over decades, there have been multiple incursions into and settlements built on Palestine's lands. And when you don't have a recognised state, there's very little that you can do about it. It means that UK governments don't say 'Gaza/the West Bank has a right to defend itself', because that's what's said about states, and not non-states.
This is the nub of the issue.

 

[borat]

I'll be kind with this one TB, you shouldn't be posting stuff like this, because you want it to be true.
No news agency BBC/Sky etc has backed it up. Did you not see the source and because of shit like this the Israelis have had to post images of this particular atrocity

 

[Hugo Rune]

My impression (it's just that, an impression) is that there is much sympathy and foreboding for the people of Gaza on here and justifiably in my view. As this is a complex situation, it's important that alternative views are also sought, and this is as good a 'view from Israel' from one of the world's greatest historians:

Israelis and Palestinians are facing their moment of greatest danger since 1948 | Yuval Noah Harari

There is still a slim chance for peace if wiser counsels prevail, and all sides come together in a coalition of the willing, says historian Yuval Noah Harari

www.theguardian.com

The writer obviously believes that the UK is not capable of taking a ‘world beating’ stance on solving this problem. There

“Second, a coalition of the willing – ranging from the US and the EU to Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian Authority – should take responsibility.”

I can’t argue.

This is a very good article but I can’t see anyone stopping the Israeli government bombing the whole of northern Gaza to rubble even though the

At what point have Israel gone too far with the untargeted response? American didn't flatten Iraq or Afghanistan after 9/11 (despite being attacked by Saudis), they went after the actual bastards wot done it. Israel are destroying entire tower blocks of homes of innocent people, seemingly deliberately and indiscriminately. The attack on Israel is disgusting, shocking, unbelievable. Inevitably there would and should be an overwhelming response but at some point someone is going to have reign Netanyahu in a bit and end the slaughter he's wreaking with universal global backing.

Terrorist groups should be the target of the response and not the same innocent people murdered in Israel by Hamas.

I note that the USA tracked down the mastermind behind 9/11, went into his house and ended his life of pure evil making sure the vast majority of the women and children present there survived.

They took their time gradually annihilating the leaders of al-Qaeda with mostly surgical strikes minimising civilian casualties. I believe the Isreal should do the same thing instead of threatening to level Gaza city.

 

[portslade seagull]

Aren't most of the Hamas leaders in Qatar. I know where I would be sending mossad

 

[kojak]

Hamas are the cancer of the Palestinian people
The IDF have the unenviable task of removing them

 

[DJ NOBO]

Israel/Gaza has been a complicated / horrific mess for a long time.
One thing is clear though.
Anyone who doesn’t condemn the recent massacre, holds the view that, under certain circumstances, murdering children is justified.

 

[Krafty]

Anyone who supports Palestinians holds the view that, under certain circumstances, beheading children is justified.

I don't think anyone "supports" Palestinians, I think they are recognising the many innocent civilians of Israel and Palestine who have been killed in this horrible conflict - and that includes the possible beheading of children.
Can we stop using the word "support" anyway? It is like we are talking about a football match, but it is certainly not.

 

[DJ NOBO]

I don't anyone "supports" Palestinians, I think they are recognising the many innocent civilians of Israel and Palestine who have been killed in this horrible conflict - and that includes the possible beheading of children.
Can we stop using the word "support" anyway? It is like we are talking about a football match, but it is certainly not.

Yes, fair enough . I had already changed my wording

 

[borat]

Hamas are the cancer of the Palestinian people
The IDF have the unenviable task of removing them

Good question and at the same time how do we get rid of the IDF and the extremist elements within the Israeli government. Not easy.