[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[rogersix]

He’s Das Reich.

is he? wow and how do you know? really?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

He’s Das Reich.

No, his punctuation is better and he can spell.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The boundaries have been moved to include Meon etc which is rural, unfortunately.

As for a leadership challenge, I reckon Penny Mordaunt is ambitious enough to try again, but she is experienced in lying.

The next Tory leadership battle will be an irrelevance. It will take them at least 5 years and multiple leaders before they find any sense of direction. Their green credentials are in tatters and they've lost the middle ground

They've also purged their party of anyone sympathetic to Europe and are regarded as unelectable by the vast majority of anyone under 45 years of age, with their hardcore support dying off by the day.

 

[nicko31]

Wootton and Fox should both be suspended imo.

I also think the police should be investigating Wootton, but that's another scenario.

Update

GB News suspends Wootton after Fox comments

Presenter joins Laurence Fox on suspension over insults against female reporter on Wootton's show.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Simster]

The next Tory leadership battle will be an irrelevance. It will take them at least 5 years and multiple leaders before they find any sense of direction. Their green credentials are in tatters and they've lost the middle ground

They've also purged their party of anyone sympathetic to Europe and are regarded as unelectable by the vast majority of anyone under 45 years of age, with their hardcore support dying off by the day.

You'd think so, but the voting system and media ownership is so stacked in their favour that they might just get back in 2030 or whatever simply because they're not Labour.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It doesn’t enforce separation, it offers each individual the freedom to engage (or not) with other cultures within the same geographical space.

Personally, I’m bang alongside the idea of ensuring that people arriving here can learn the skills that will enable them to integrate if they choose to, but the difficulty of multiculturalism is also the beauty of it.

Forced integration isn’t multiculturalism, it is enforced cultural homogeneity. It says that you’re welcome here provided you dress like us, speak like us, and like what we like.

Multiculturalism relies on a degree of shared civil understanding. Problems occur when any group that forms part of society say “we have precedence here.” and assert dominance. Religion appears the most reliable starter of conflict, with politics coming a close second. Is multiculturalism tougher? Yes. Potentially more rewarding for all involved? Absolutely.

Too much time and effort is spent trying to divide us by what’s different, instead of celebrating what’s shared. We won’t know for generations yet what the results of multiculturalism will be.

Hopefully as a society we get better at understanding each other’s differences without feeling threatened, but there’s a very long way to go. Everyone feels threatened by the unknown, on all sides of the argument.

Precisely. The basic premise is that different cultures are legitimate, and therefore should not be forcibly changed. It additionally does not allow that actions that are illegal in the UK be permitted if such actions are part of a group's culture. This means that discrimination against women and homosexuals is not legal in this country, even if it is a norm in a particular culture.

And cultures of course evolve. Working class white culture once meant meat and two veg, men-only bars, and give the missus a slap once in a while if she stepped out of line.

Multiculturalism does not mean that cultures should be kept separate. It is possible that some members of some cultures may chose to live separate lives, and this is the opposite of integration and is bad, but this is not 'multiculturalism'. It is bad primarily for those who chose that path, since they miss out.

Multiculturalism is therefore nothing more than the opposite of cultural persecution. Which is essentially mostly racism.

Oh and if people refuse to learn English then I see no reason why the taxpayer should fund interpreters. If you chose to live in this country, by all means cling on to your culture (the aspects of it that are legal) but FFS learn the language. I see no contradictions here.

 

[Pavilionaire]

You'd think so, but the voting system and media ownership is so stacked in their favour that they might just get back in 2030 or whatever simply because they're not Labour.

It will be interesting to see how these factors play out, and if Labour get an outright majority. If they don't, or if it is small, then it will be in their long-term interest to reform the electoral system. I can see the SNP and Lib Dems doing business with Labour but not the Tories, so there will always be that 50%+ of seats willing to work together. It is hard to see the Tories winning another majority in their present guise.

Either way, I can't see them getting back into power until a Labour-led government have dragged the country back into some sort of closer, workable relationship with Europe where stuff like import checks, border in the Irish Sea, migrant boats, labour / skills shortages have all been dealt with via deals / Customs Union / EFTA membership, and that lot is unlikely to get across the line in the 2024-29 parliament.

 

[JBizzle]

It will be interesting to see how these factors play out, and if Labour get an outright majority. If they don't, or if it is small, then it will be in their long-term interest to reform the electoral system. I can see the SNP and Lib Dems doing business with Labour but not the Tories, so there will always be that 50%+ of seats willing to work together. It is hard to see the Tories winning another majority in their present guise.

Either way, I can't see them getting back into power until a Labour-led government have dragged the country back into some sort of closer, workable relationship with Europe where stuff like import checks, border in the Irish Sea, migrant boats, labour / skills shortages have all been dealt with via deals / Customs Union / EFTA membership, and that lot is unlikely to get across the line in the 2024-29 parliament.

No-one will ever do business with the Tories again I feel. Lib Dems were nearly wiped out when they tried it and the SNP would only do it if a referendum was included, now we know the Tories love a referendum, but that's a big ask.

The Tories will get in again simply because people have short memories and Labour will have to make some tough calls to sort out this mess.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

Dan Wootton is now also suspended.

When people going to join the dots between these absolute horrible individuals and the government feeding off each other and realise what this country has become?

It’s embarrassing, upsetting and depressing.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

No-one will ever do business with the Tories again I feel. Lib Dems were nearly wiped out when they tried it and the SNP would only do it if a referendum was included, now we know the Tories love a referendum, but that's a big ask.

The Tories will get in again simply because people have short memories and Labour will have to make some tough calls to sort out this mess.

I don’t know if they will and I despair if they do. It would take more than one term to ‘fix’ the country it is that far in the sewer. A lab/Lib dem/snp/green pact to form a strong coalition government would seem to make sense.

The tories will obviously go further right as they did in opposition to Blair until they realised it wasn’t working and came up with Cameron.

I personally couldn’t bring myself to vote tactically for the Lib Dems though for 3 reasons: 1) David Bellotti 2) Norman Baker 3) For propping up the aforementioned Cameron which led us into this crap show in the first place.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

No-one will ever do business with the Tories again I feel. Lib Dems were nearly wiped out when they tried it and the SNP would only do it if a referendum was included, now we know the Tories love a referendum, but that's a big ask.

The Tories will get in again simply because people have short memories and Labour will have to make some tough calls to sort out this mess.

Unfortunately, in the last 13 years so much damage has been done by legislation, a lot of which hasn’t even been report by client journalists, Labour will need more than 5 years to sort it out.
Imo, the best thing Labour could do, is bring in PR, so no party ever gets a huge majority again. Then they can start to get us onto an even keel. I think they will reject it and we will lurch again.

 

[Machiavelli]

No-one will ever do business with the Tories again I feel. Lib Dems were nearly wiped out when they tried it and the SNP would only do it if a referendum was included, now we know the Tories love a referendum, but that's a big ask.

The Tories will get in again simply because people have short memories and Labour will have to make some tough calls to sort out this mess.

Somewhat (if not directly) related:

Cameron and Clegg considered audacious electoral pact in 2015

Senior Tory and Lib Dem MPs were behind the plan, new book reveals

www.theguardian.com

 

[Audax]

The Tories will get in again simply because people have short memories and Labour will have to make some tough calls to sort out this mess.

This. I mean, after the 2019 GE there was a lot of talk about how impossible it would be for Labour to win the 2024 GE off the back of such a drubbing. And yet, here we are - the most likely scenario is that they do win. And while the Tories have had a massive hand in that, let's not downplay the role that the drubbing had as well in shifting the power balance within Labour. Corbyn out, and with him the dread awful frontbench he put together. Labour suddenly look like a party that voters could actually vote for.

Similar thing could happen to the Conservatives if they get hit hard enough at the next election. There's a number of vulnerable "names" who could lose their seats, and would no doubt wander off to high-paid opportunities outside politics and never come back. It could be exactly the clean out they need to set aside the right-wing dog whistle politics and re-centre themselves. All depending, of course, on who takes the reins after Sunak falls on his sword.

 

[Nobby]

is he? wow and how do you know? really?

Probably not. But maybe a long lost brother using Chat GPT

 

[Stato]

Braverman wouldn't be able to pin point Nelson on a map if you asked her.

Wouldn’t she just have to look for Dickie Bird standing on one leg?

 

[Nobby]

No, his punctuation is better and he can spell.

He’s using Chat GPT

 

[The Clamp]

Anyone writing off the Tory’s at the election may be disappointed.

Never underestimate the capacity of the U.K. public to be duped by Daily Mail fuelled ravings about foreigners, migrants, etc

Lest we forget the 2016 referendum.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I saw that yesterday, and then Mrs DiS this morning said that the speech had actually been approved by Downing Street.
this, to me, seems like Fascism - quoting statistics that are not accurate and hang the consequences.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Anyone writing off the Tory’s at the election may be disappointed.

Never underestimate the capacity of the U.K. public to be duped by Daily Mail fuelled ravings about foreigners, migrants, etc

Lest we forget the 2016 referendum.

The thing about Labour's return to electability is that even under Corbyn they always had a decent core of MPs with a few stars on the rise that could turn it around and return the party back from the wilderness of the far left towards the centre. The party - and Starmer - have made a series of largely good decisions that have got them back in the game.

However, you cannot say the same opportunity is there for the Tories. They have purged their party of moderates while those with any sense of conscience and good sense are standing down at the next GE. You'll be left with c. 160-200 right-wing Brexiteers pandering to a declining, ageing membership who are so senile they forced Liz Truss upon us as PM. I don't see where they go from here. It's like the electorate and the rest of the world have sussed them out for the complete bunch of chancers they are.

 

[A1X]

Anyone writing off the Tory’s at the election may be disappointed.

Never underestimate the capacity of the U.K. public to be duped by Daily Mail fuelled ravings about foreigners, migrants, etc

Lest we forget the 2016 referendum.

Yep. The 2024 Tory campaign will involve so much red meat for old whites people their campaign bus will look like one of those lion feeding trucks at Whipsnade. Uxbridge proved they can win this way.

ULEZ lies? You bet. Outright racism? Probably. Climate change denial? Wouldn’t put it past them.