Most likely I would have thought
Well - let's see - and one of my long and detailed posts
Well - let's see - and one of my long and detailed posts
Jack Grealish - from an Irish family born in Birmingham - played gaelic football as a kid in Birmingham and spent a lot of time in Ireland growing up. In 2011 he was selected for the English U-15 squad and he rejected the invitation, joining the Irish U-15s instead. Was selected for the England U-17s three times and turned them down each time. From 2014 Grealish was on the fringes of the Irish senior squad - and he said nothing would make his Dad prouder than playing for the Irish team.
Ireland U-17s - 7 apps
Ireland U-18s - 6 apps
Ireland U-21s - 6 apps
Why did Grealish switch - agents and money - English internationals attract far bigger transfer fees, far bigger contracts and far bigger agent's fees than Irish players. Everything doubled overnight in financial terms. On top of that - his dad was a plasterer until Grealish switched to England - now he has a lucrative job with a sports agency.
Jude Bellingham - His grandparents are Irish - and is another player born in the West Midlands with Irish heritage. His Dad repeatedly talked about how proud he was of his half-Irish, mixed race son.
Was he ever going to play for Ireland - no - and no one in Ireland expected he would. Why does he have an Irish passport - to circumvent La Liga rules about foreign players.
Harry Kane - family are native Irish speakers from the Connemara Gaelteacht . He played Irish sports and music as a kid - and spent the summer months in Connemara for most of his childhood. Unusually, Kane's Irish heritage was not found by the FAI. In 2014 his agent contacted the FAI and told them that Kane was interested in switching international allegiance from England to Ireland. Then Spurs put pressure on the player not to do so - why? - potential loss of transfer fees if they ever sold him. The pressure counted - Kane stayed with England and Spurs are probably going to get close to £100m for him if they sell him in the next couple of weeks.
Harry Maguire - his grandparents are Irish and he was actually qualified to play for both the Republic and the North. Never appeared on the Irish radar - but apparently does now have an Irish passport.
Declan Rice - now here is the prime example - born in London - his grandparents were from Cork.
Ireland U-16s - 3 apps
Ireland U-17s - 6 apps
Ireland U-19s - 6 apps
Ireland U-21s - 5 apps
Ireland Senior team - 3 caps
Throughout his underage time with Ireland the English FA showed zero interest in Rice. However, in 2018 Rice was offered a new contract by West Ham - and prompted by his agent and the club - knowing the fact that declaring for England would at least double his value to the club (and his agent knowing it would double his fees and commission) the pressure came on Rice to switch to England. It is worth noting that Stuart Pearce, Rice's coach at West Ham at the time, was opposed to allowing Rice to switch to England. Roy Keane possibly had a small role in pushing Rice into the England camp - he can be a bit brash in his comments at times. This is Rice talking after playing for the Irish team against the USA -
By the way - the only one that is an issue for me is Rice - kids don't know what they want to do - but once you play at full international level that should lock in international representation. But it is clear that in the case of both Rice and Grealish - money - which is now the dominant factor in football - was the key reason for both players switching to England. Tom Cannon is now being poached - and the same arguments are being used - except Cannon is unlikely to be at the same standard as the players mentioned above. Indeed it would be a shame for Cannon to switch and end up with a handful of England caps and miss on an opportunity of potentially spending 15 years playing up front with Evan Ferguson with Ireland.
Case in point about money - last year Gavin Bazunu joined Southampton from Man City for £10m - this season James Trafford joined Burnley from Man City for £19m. The difference - Bazunu is an Irish international with 16 caps who played 32 PL games last season - Trafford is an English U-21 international who played in L1 last season. Bazunu is a way better goalkeeper than Trafford - and will be a way better goalkeeper than Trafford. But Trafford is English so more money comes into play.
The one player that switched that I do have a major problem with is Michael Keane of Everton - he has publicly stated in recent times that he only played for the Irish underage teams because he couldn't get into the English teams because the coaches thought he was too small - and that he used the Irish teams to gain experience and help him bulk up. He deprived an Irish player of a place in those squads that could have been the difference to that player of making or breaking a chance at a pro career. Keane's father is Irish - and if he was my son I would have kicked his rear end to high heaven for behaving in that fashion - not for switching - but for using the Irish set-up in the way he did (but hell - different families have different dynamics and outlooks).
There are many other English players that qualified to play for Ireland - of the current batch of English internationals - Kalvin Phillips, Conor Gallagher, James Maddison, Callum Wilson, Conor Coady all could have played for Ireland. Liam Delap's father was an Irish international. Former English internationals who qualified for Ireland - Paul Scholes, Paul Gascoigne, Jimmy Greaves, Martin Keown, Wayne Rooney. One player that should have played for Ireland and didn't despite never playing for England - Steve Bruce. His mother was born in Ireland and Jack Charlton wanted to call him into the Irish squad - Alex Ferguson warned Bruce against declaring for Ireland because at the time he would have been classed as a foreign player under UEFA rules. His son Alex Bruce later played for Ireland (and later the North because he never appeared in a competitive international for the Republic).
While Ireland has and continues to take advantage of a large diaspora - former imperial powers also take advantage of their position. England have used players in the past who have had zero connection with the country. John Barnes was born in Jamaica - his father captained the Jamaican national team - he had no connection with England and moved to London when he was 12 after his father was appointed to the Jamaican High Commission in London. Raheem Sterling is also Jamaican - born there and his mother competed for Jamaica at athletics - like Barnes, had has zero connection with England until he moved there at the age of five. Tony Dorigo was born in Australia to an Italian father and Australian mother - no connection with England until he joined Villa - he was called up to the Australian squad but Villa manager Tony Barton refused to let him travel to Australia. Marc Guehi was born in the Cote d'Ivoire - and again - no connection until he moved to England. Fikayo Tomori was born in Canada of Nigerian parents - before moving to England, and he played for Canada at underage level. Eberechi Eze is of Nigerian decent and trained with the Nigerian team. Saka is also of Nigerian decent, Marcus Rashford is of West Indian decent (Jamaican and Kittitian), Reece James is of Grenadian and Dominican decent, Ivan Toney is of Jamaican decent, Tammy Abraham is of Nigerian decent. And one that got away - Erling Haaland was born in England.
England are far from the worst of the former Empires - The French team that won the 1998 world cup had the following Vieira (born Senegal), Dessailly (Ghana), Thuram (Guadeloupe), Karembeau (New Caledonia), Trezeguet (born in France to Argentinian parents and grew up in Argentina - Spanish is his first language - he started his playing career in Argentina before being signed by Monaco). Along with that - Zidane is of Algerian Kabyle decent, Henry of Guadeloupean decent as is Diomede, Djorkaeff and Boghossian are of Armenian decent and Lizarazu identified as Basque. Only 3 of the French world cup winning squad from 2018 were not of immigrant extraction
Some famous players who played for countries they had zero connection with -
Alfredo Di Stefano - Spain - born in and played for Argentina (and Colombia)
Mauro Camoranesi - Italy - born in Argentina (qualified for Italy because his great-grandfather emigrated to Argentina 150 years ago)
Patrice Evra - France - born in Senegal
Diego Costa - Spain - born in and played for Brazil
Lukas Podolski - Germany - born in Poland (and actually wanted to play for Poland but the then coach refused to select him because he had played a few games at underage for Germany).
Miroslav Klose - Germany - born in Poland
Eusebio - Portugal - born in Mozambique
Aron Winter - Holland - born in Suriname
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink - Holland - born in Suriname
Edgar Davids - Holland - born in Suriname
Clarence Seedorf - Holland - born in Suriname
I was thinking of this one, would have been his first PL goal, but for a superb clearance from Fabian Schar.
talksport.com
He may have taken a pay cut, giving up his plastering job to work at a sports agency.
https://www.northstandchat.com/threads/does-this-quote-for-plastering-job-sound-reasonable.402607/
some good niche knowledge in your whole post - but some real lack of geopolitical history in this part!
If you put Grealish and Rice into the current Irish team then they would be going to every major tournament with Ireland (and competing). Midfield is the one weak part of the current Irish team.
I'll argue with you about Klose - he is from Upper Silesia, historically part of Poland. Yes Klose's father was part of the Aussiedler who remained in Silesia after WW2 - but his mother was Polish and was a Polish handball international. His father left Poland in 1978 to play football in France, leaving his family behind and Klose didn't move to Germany until 1986. At home Klose and his family speak Polish as their first language and he has dual nationality, not getting a German passport until ten years after he moved to the country.
I’m not going to debate the wrongs of imperialism with you.
Also, France still has its Caribbean colonies as 'dependencies' and they are regarded as French foreign departments. People from Guadeloupe for example have full French citizenship rights.
And you are suggesting that I have a lack a knowledge of geopolitical history (for clarification - I hold a PhD in history).I’m not going to debate the wrongs of imperialism with you.
irrespective of the background to it, Suriname until the mid 70s was not simply part of the Dutch Empire - it was literally a constituent part of The Kingdom of the Netherlands.
The players that you claimed had ‘no connection to the country they played for’ were literally born within it, and were citizens of it
Like I warned you before you wasted a chunk of your life typing all that - Im not interested in discussing imperialism with you - everyone knows all of that, and nobody is arguing otherwise.
You don’t enjoy lectures on Dutch colonial history and pictures of Irish people ?
Without questioning the objective accuracy of your post (to be frank, I haven't read it), isn't your particular area of expertise 19th century industrial relations?
